<p>“How many of you are willing to take the effort to learn an instrument from another culture?”</p>
<p>Again, this just confirms how little-acquainted you are with our culture, which emphasizes respect for all the traditions around the globe. You clearly have no appreciation for the many native-born Americans who take up instruments that originated or proliferated in Asia (taiko drumming), Ireland/Scotland (Celtic harp), Africa/Caribbean (various instruments). There are whole industries here devoted to these varieties of expression. But you prefer to bury your head in the sand & criticize what you imagine to be happening (or not), when the evidence contradicts that. (Speaking of science.)</p>
<p>And I completely agree with jonri. Picasso was hardly a hobbyist. Ditto for Yo-Yo Ma, many others. Achieving the heights of artistic expression & satisfaction is rarely a tagged-on experience, but one rooted in self-knowledge, beginning in childhood.</p>
<p>Just about anybody can earn a PhD in science and math if they put in the time.</p>
<p>Not so with music and art. One has to have an innate ability to be a Picasso or Yo-Yo Ma. No amount of parental pushiness will create the renown artist, but it can create a high earning scientist or professional.</p>
<p>Yeah, but will it create a HAPPY high earning scientist or professional? No point in being high earning if you hate what you do. What a complete waste of someone’s soul. </p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t care if it’s not PC - I reject the notion that someone should go into a field they’re not otherwise interested in to please or placate their parents.</p>
<p>I agree with both of you. But that wasn’t the way the discussion seemed to be going. There seemed to be the implication that anyone could choose to do whatever they want - or their parents could choose for them.</p>
<p>Do you have a Ph.D. in any of these branches of knowledge? I have a Ph.D. in the humanities and I readily confess that I could not earn a Ph.D. in math or science. My S beat me at math in 3rd grade.</p>
<p>That is just as bad a stereotype as saying that anyone can be the next Yo Yo Ma if only s/he practiced the cello.</p>
<p>Marite, I do not have a PhD in a science or math, but I know plenty of not very bright people who do. </p>
<p>Of course, they are not PhD’s from Harvard or Yale.</p>
<p>I do know a not bright person who has a PhD from Yale, but not in math or science.</p>
<p>These degrees were earned by putting in the time and having the right connections.</p>
<p>Today, advanced degrees are readily available from online schools. I know several PhD psychologists who have them. They are paid by major insurance companies.</p>
<p>Do you know any renowned artists without innate talent? I don’t mean pop singers or Botero.</p>
<p>“I agree with both of you. But that wasn’t the way the discussion seemed to be going. There seemed to be the implication that anyone could choose to do whatever they want - or their parents could choose for them.”</p>
<p>Well, we’re here in America. And American culture rejects the notion that parents tell their children what careers to pursue or that it’s ok to force the future artist or philosophy major to be a doctor. And if you want to Make It To The Upper Reaches of American Society, you might want to know that, before you go bragging about how your kids are such successes because you forced them into being doctors, lawyers, etc.</p>
<p>I was driving around today trying to think of some way that my point might be understood.</p>
<p>So try this. American women are in general quite a lot heavier and bigger than Chinese women. I myself am close to 5’6" and weigh about 125. I don’t fall in the overweight category. The women I work with in China are quite often around 5’2" and can’t weigh more than 85 lbs. Walking through the streets, it is quite clear that the stereotype of American women as big girls (prevalent in China), is quite true, from the Chinese perspective.</p>
<p>When I went shopping in Shanghai, the sales girls would giggle at me. Because it was hard to find clothes that fit. I went once with my D, she is 5’9" and weighed something around 140 that summer. Imagine how funny we looked trying clothes on in the store?</p>
<p>Now imagine that you are on a forum in China. And someone posts a thread - American Women Stereotype (Amusing). It wouldn’t be the fact that we are bigger, it would be the way in which the bigness was discussed. From what perspective. If they saw how embarassing it might have been for us, fine. But if they were laughing at us, well, they would be making fun of us for our cultural expression.</p>
<p>There is no value one way or the other. I am not fat. My daughter is not fat. There is no health benefit per se that can be definitively argued for my BMI vs. my coworkers’ BMIs, especially since I eat low-fat whole grain blah blah annoyingly healthily blah. In my culture I am doing exactly what I should be doing. In their culture I am comical.</p>
<p>The issue is the poking fun at someone. </p>
<p>Zoosermom, I know that’s not what you meant to do. And I think the discussion you’ve engaged in subsequently in this thread is quite nice.</p>
<p>But what I says has import, so I am willing to persist.</p>
<p>“Just about anybody can earn a PhD in science and math if they put in the time.” Per Sunnymamare.</p>
<p>Oh! Really? Try taking a Grad level 4 credit course in Biochemistry or in Fourier Transform C13 NMR and let’s chat then. These are only 2 core courses (of 50 core credits) one has to complete successfully for a PhD in Biochem or in Chemistry, resp.</p>
<p>The degree of difficulty in understanding and implementing certain Sciences is no different from the degree of difficulty in any particular Music area. It boils down to “aptitude”. It’s not the kind of thing one can force on kids.</p>
<p>By the way, the on-line PhDs are not worth more than pennys, if you apply with these degrees to top institutions or companies.</p>
<p>Pharma companies disregard on-line PhDs. They like to see actual research on your CVs, the kind that is published with top researchers as co-authors.</p>
<p>Online Ph.D.s are not worth the paper they’re printed on. If you know plenty of people who have legitimate Ph.D.s in math and science, they presumably were capable of earning these Ph.D.s. If you think you could get a Ph.D. in any field if only you had tried, my hat’s off to you. I admit I could not, no matter how hard I tried. Just as my H, who does have a Ph.D. in physics, would never have succeeded in English or history or anthropology. We are not interchangeable in our talents and interests, but we both worked very hard to get our Ph.D.s</p>
<p>Renowned artists: What do you mean by that? Britney Spears or Maria Callas? They are/were both singers. But there’s no comparison.</p>
<p>I have many Jewish friends who fit into the Asian stereotypes, aggressive, success oriented, have children who are either doctors, lawyers or bankers, very creative in getting the best deal etc.if I start a forum saying jewish stereotypes didn’t come from thin air, I wonder what kind of responses will follow.</p>
<p>I have found a lot of overlap
My D was going to attend an Arts school & would have if she had been admitted to a certain program at a particular school, as it was she ended up getting a bio degree ( but taking a great deal of music)
I know several people who are involved in the sciences for their day job
for instance at least one of these guys has a Phd. in statistics!
[CD</a> Baby: EMERALD CITY MANDOLIN QUARTET: Night Music](<a href=“http://cdbaby.com/cd/emeraldcitymq]CD”>http://cdbaby.com/cd/emeraldcitymq)
( oh and my D’s music prof has a physics degree from Harvard(
lots of overlap in arts & sciences
Steve JObs has often mentioned for example the calligraphy classes he took at Reed that greatly came into play when designing the Mac ;)</p>
<p>It’s true, especially for math and physics. In fact, there are courses on the physics or math of music. I know several people who’ve had joint majors in math or physics and music. One such student at Harvard wrote the legendary Les Phyz that is performed at least once a year. Eventually, however, people have to make a choice as to which talent to cultivate in order to truly excel.
Slightly off-topic: There was a nice article on Bach’s Art of the Fugue on Slate.com recently that made the point about the association between math and music (esp. that of Bach).</p>
Are you saying that a person’s height is part of her cultural expression? I see no reason that any salesclerk should EVER laugh at a customer for being tall. You seem to be comparing behaviors (Zoosermom’s description of running, jostling, parents) to a physical characteristic common to a race (height) about which nobody has control. American women ARE bigger, taller, more broad shouldered than Chinese women. I don’t see how an undeniable fact that can be emperically observed is a stereotype.</p>
<p>Weight. My weight. The fact that I weigh more. They aren’t just shorter, they are skinnier. Much skinnier. That’s a cultural choice. It isn’t hunger either. These are women who earn a lot of money for Shanghai and can live very well. At 5’6" and 125 I look fat in that culture. I don’t look fat in the American culture.</p>
<p>And my weight is caused by my behavior. My behavior that is supported and even applauded in my culture.</p>
<p>To posts 126, 128, 129, 131, 132, 133, and any other posts related to the subjects of these posts:</p>
<p>Gosh, I am sorry that I know people who have PhD’s in math and science that are not very bright.</p>
<p>I am sorry I know people who have online degrees and receive payments from insurance companies.</p>
<p>I am sorry if my knowing such people upset you.</p>
<p>I think if you read my previous responses VERY CAREFULLY, you will understand what I was attempting to convey. 34, 122, 125, 128</p>
<p>Marite, concerning your comment related to Spears and Callas, I specified I was not referring to pop singers. I wasn’t aware Callas was a pop singer. However, in her own right, even though she is a pop singer and not my taste in music, I do consider Britney Spears talented.</p>