The Darwin Method of Childrearing

Parents Forum
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<p>I would like to share an article from the Philadelphia Inquirer, 1/3/2005, entitled “On Healing: On Healing | Kids suffer stress from push to excel”
By Dan Gottlieb</p>

<p>A few brief excerpts:</p>

<p>"Forget Freud and Spock: Many of today’s parents are raising their children based on the works of Charles Darwin! You know, eat or be eaten, excel or fail. And the message is getting through loud and clear.</p>

<p>Most children I speak with are under constant stress to achieve excellence in everything they do. Even neighborhood athletics and extracurricular activities are now avenues where excellence must be pursued…"</p>

<hr>

<p>"Somehow, average has become a four-letter word. No Child Left Behind? What I see in the suburbs is all children pushed to the front.</p>

<p>And the cost?</p>

<p>Columbia University psychologist Sunya Luthar found that in affluent communities, the rate of depression and anxiety disorders is dramatically higher than the national average. The two most significant factors were stress and a sense of disconnection from parents."</p>

<hr>

<p>“Some of you may be thinking: “What’s the matter with our children achieving their highest potential?” Many things. The problem with the Darwinist method of child rearing is that it is based on fear and not faith. Much of today’s child-rearing is about fear of what will happen if our child doesn’t excel, as opposed to faith in our child’s ability to create a happy life.”</p>

<p>full text article here:
<a href=“http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10552899.htm?1c[/url]”>http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10552899.htm?1c&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>I am posting this because I read this, then came to this board - and here are some of today’s active threads:</p>

<p>" What do you do if child student says he wants to major in ‘FILM’?" Backhandgrip says she resents her son’s high school for offering elective options allowing him to develop such unorthodox interests. </p>

<p>“Grade Inflation or Smart, Hard-Working Kids?”
Digmedia expresses concern over the fact that approx. 8% of the kids at her kid’s high school have achieved straight-A averages, questioning whether this indicates rampant grade inflation or, alternatively, whether the kids are working too hard. </p>

<p>“How do your H.S. juniors/seniors keep a paying job?”
Backhandgrip now wonders how kids can find time for paid employment with their overloaded AP-laden courseload and various EC’s.</p>

<p>“College Admissions Endangers H.S. Friendships”
Northstarmom posts a reference to a Newsweek article concerning the intense competition and jealousy surrounding the college admission process. </p>

<p>“Psat scores in-need sage advice”
Curmudgeon’s daughter is all in a snit over the fact that she has scored a mere 210 on the PSAT, a few points too low to make the cutoff for NM Finalist. She expresses her frustration by cursing out Dad when he makes the fatal error of praising the score that she has.</p>

<p>I just think that maybe it’s time for parents - and kids too - to take a step back and try to maybe… enjoy life a little. Are all these high achieving kids really doomed to failure if they don’t end up being perfect? Is it all that bad if a kid pursues a career in a field he loves, but which pays little? Or if a kid who wants to hold down a job drops a couple of AP’s in favor of an easier coarse load? Or skips taking the PSAT entirely? Or if a kid values her friendships over test scores, grades, and colleges?</p>

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<p>Well … Obviously the answer to all the questions in the last paragraph is an emphatic “no.” But I’d hesitate to diagnose the posters who’ve put up the threads you refer to as necessarily needing to “step back.” The questions they’ve posed are legit, particularly for a parents’ college discussion board. A common underlying theme on CC seems to be how to meet the undeniable challenges of the admissions process WITHOUT sacrificing one’s relationship with one’s child or the ability to enjoy life a little.</p>

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<p>when I think of evolutionary biology( as applied to parenting) I think more of behaviors that permit a being to thrive and learn from mistakes rather than “survival of the fittest”.
I agree that children & their parents are stressed in ways previous generations were not. More awareness of crises around the world, knowledge that the chemicals and hormones in their workplace and food will probably make them ill, more people means more traffic, more buildings and fewer open areas to enjoy.
I don’t argue that children of educated, affluent parents are often diagnosed with mental disorders. However, I would expect that the rate of anxiety and stress is much higher in poorer communities but their kids don’t get diagnosed. How can you compare being pressured to attend Dads alma mater, with not having money to go to the doctor, living on ramen noodles and having a parent who is never home because they are working 2 or three minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over their head?</p>

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<p>Hey Calmom! Why are you beating up on me! I made it clear it’s not the major but the suddeness of selecting it!
If you read my comments more carefully, I like to have my kids prepared SLOWLY. After finding my oldest losing out time and again and being disappointed over and over only because of the sheer NUMBERS at his large suburban school district (I mean really, how can folks with kids in smaller school districts relate to a high school senior class of 600?) I learned that several slow years of prep is the way to win the race. Yes, I do see kids burned out. I notice this primarily in, for instance, BALLET where girls were taking 5, 3hour classes a week and performaces as well.</p>

<p>So ‘pushing to the forefront’ is not how I work. It’s SLOW and STEADY prep. For example, there is a very high class neighborhood in our school district where all the kids excel and become leading members of the tennis team because of their early exposure to the sport. When my younger boys tried out in 7th grade they blew all these kids away because of not only their tennis exposurew but their tournament participation at an early age. Only someone who does these early tournaments knows their benefit. They teach the kids not to learn how to play but to lean how to compete.</p>

<p>My feeling is their is an art to developing a child who ‘has the edge.’ It’s not ‘pushing to the forefront’. It’s more aboout slow and steady development over TIME.</p>

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<p>Backhand…I year ya on the huge school thing. Believe it or not, the school board thought it would be a good thing to consolidate two 5A high schools. Now the enrollment is up over 3,800. But of the 1,200 freshmen that start together less than 800 will walk the stage four years later. They do get lost in the system, and there is no room for the kid that just wants to participate in something that he isn’t nationally ranked in. That’s why our younger two are in a district that has less than 1,200 kids total from k-12. We find that “only” having 8 decent AP classes offered and the opportunity to participate in multiple school activities outweighs 21 mediocre AP offerings and the opportunity to be in ONE activity, and only if you are darn good at it.</p>

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<p>Calmom: You’re cherry-picking snippets of issues without really bothering to read through the whole depth of discussions or getting a feel for the people you’re chastising. Also, in some cases, you’re shooting the messenger. . Digmedia has, over several years, maintained a goal of finding the right, not the “best,” school for his son, who clearly emerges as a kid who is entirely self-directed. As BHG remarks, it’s the sudden-ness of her son’s new major, and the need to explore it, that is her concern in the one thread, while the other worries about kids doing too much. NSM is plainly worrying about the same thing you are, and is posting a reference similar to yours. And Curmudgeon–the sanest, funniest person on this board? You’re going to take his priceless storytelling gift as evidence of pathology???</p>

<p>The situation in that column is real, but you’ve set up bogus examples to hang particular posters. Not sure why</p>

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<p>I’m pretty sure that this will become a flame war pretty soon, so I guess I’d better get my (hopefully reasonable) comments in while I can. </p>

<p>I also have some concerns about some of the posts I read on this board. As background, my S is a sophomore, basically a B+/A- student. His PSAT as a sophomore was 177 (CR 64 Math 52 Writing 61) and we were all happy with that. He’s finally starting to “get” math, so he’s optimistic that the math score should go up on next year’s PSAT, and if if doesn’t he knows he’ll probably have to get some extra tutoring. In AP U.S. History this year, which is his first exposure to AP, and doing okay (after the initial shock wore off). He plans on taking more AP courses next year and as a senior, but he does NOT plan on taking an AP course whenever it is offered. Plays baseball <em>just</em> well enough to make the team, but he truly loves playing and hopes to improve enough over the next two years to at least consider Divison III ball. We told him that we wanted him more involved in school and community so he doesn’t sit around at the computer all day, so he’s involved in Spanish Club and as a photographer for the school newspaper, neither of which is a large time commitment. In response to our suggestion that he find a volunteer activity, he just applied to join the local volunteer fire department. I’m not sure running into burning buildings is what my wife had in mind . . . So when compared to some (most?) of the kids I see being discussed on this Board, he would probably be considered “average”. I happen to think he’s teriffic, and I’m comfortable with the fact that while a “Top 10” or “Top LAC” is probably not in the cards, he’ll have enough college options to allow him to attend a good school that he’s happy at and that will challenge him. I do have a knee-jerk “you must be kidding” reaction when I read posts along the lines of “my S/D is devastated about not getting in to HYSP ED” or “S/D only got a 200 on PSAT, how can I motivate them to push for a higher SAT” or “S/D got a 1540 – should they retake?” I sometimes feel that I’m not living in the same universe, and I admit that I often assume that the parents are completely out of control and are driving their kids to the brink. </p>

<p>However. The more I visit this board, the more I come to realize that the parents here, even the ones who seemed to be waaay overboard to me at first blush, are truly loving parents comitted to their kids and are trying to find a way to help them succeed. The kids themselves are often those that have excelled all their lives, and I can understand that, as a parent, you don’t want to see your child disappointed or face what THEY define as failure. My own take is that a little failure never hurt anyone, but as a parent I know how difficult it is to see your child disappointed. </p>

<p>It’s a fine line sometimes between supporting and nudging and pushing and over-pushing and being a Joan Crawford parent. Okay, maybe it’s not such a fine line before you get to the Joan Crawford stage. I think the overwhelming majority of parents here are truly looking for those lines so that they don’t step over them. </p>

<p>Just my thoughts.</p>

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<p>Iderochi - I don’t have time for a really long post here, but I understand exactly what you are saying. My daughter is more like your son (her PSATs were actually very similar to his in 10th grade :slight_smile: ) while my son is more like the very high achieving kids whose parents you find hard to relate to. We encourage both kids to do the best they are capable of and meet the goals they set for themselves (hopefully without being like the parents described in the Phila Inquirer article whose kids are sick from stress), and they both do great, but their aims and abilities are very different. I can understand how a parent of a “typical” good and involved student could find it difficult to relate to some of the issues discussed here, but having both types of kids, I can see both sides of this question.</p>

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<p>Iderochi; Just to explain about the reason why a parent of a child who receives a 200 psat score sophomore year may want to prep their child to get higher- big money.National Merit hovers about 210-15. National Merit is the point at which many colleges offer full ride scholarships, not the finer ones, but many others. To a parent with 4 kids this offer is crucial.My son’s score increased 90 pts with prep between sophmore/junior year but I have heard of kids whose score has gone down.I mean, yeah, if you child score 200 soph go for it. Any kid who scored 200 can do the prep and proibably enjoys the quest.</p>

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<p>In fact Iderochi, from my experience with my 4 kids taking this test, I would suggest you prep your son. He has a shot of making it.It’s less than 50 pts.Why give up opportunities? And if your son got a 177, he can do the prep and would also probably enjoy the quest too. But it depends how you do it. Don’t yell or force your child. Just give him the facts, look at the threads where kids have increased their scores and check Iggi, test prep methods, etc. And pep talks , you can do it, matters .Sometimes striving is FUN and that is what many of these posts are about, not just bragging.</p>

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<p>The difficulty is the big jump between the medium and difficult questions.Many kids blaze on and then stall at the difficult questions.Sometimes it’s just a matter or getting 2 or 3 right and getting all the medium and easy right. Sometimes it’s just knowing how to answer the medium and easy and being a good guesser.Well, I’m off c.c.for today!</p>

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<p>Thanks BHG, I’m aware of the scholarship issue and I know how important it can be. In my “hypothetical parent” situation I set up a scenario where the PSAT had already been taken as a Junior (with a very good score), and the question was how hard a parent should push to get a higher SAT score. I certainly agree that if a student takes the PSAT as a Sophomore or younger and it appears from their score that one of the “magic” numbers (210+) may be achievable in the Junior year, then there’s nothing wrong with trying to get to that number (as long as you can do it without driving the teen or parent stark raving mad). </p>

<p>And congratulations on your Son’s increase – 90 points is outstanding and I know he must have really put in the effort. </p>

<p>And now I’m gonna sound just like the parents that I was saying seemed to live in a different universe sometimes – was it a prep company, self-study, tutor or what? I’m not necessarily concerned about the PSAT, but S is a year behind most of his college-prep peers in math (but catching up). After a difficult time in Middle School with math he finally is getting it, and has made A’s in the last few years. But my concern is that the SAT (and to a lesser extent the PSAT) will test concepts that he won’t have gotten to in his class by the time of the test. Not a huge concern, because it probably won’t be an issue if he takes the SAT more than once. Just curious about what worked so well for your S. </p>

<p>Regards.</p>

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<p>Calmom-</p>

<p>Based on your last paragraph, I don’t think you’ve been around CC very long. Not long ago, there was a lengthy thread where a student asked about high-paying careers and how important they were. The parents here we overwhelmingly in support of students pursing their interests, regardless of income potential. There were countless discussions about the fact that high income doesn’t equate to happiness in life, etc.</p>

<p>There have also been many discussions in support of students holding jobs instead of academic or other ECs. Often, new parents will come on here asking questions about special summer programs and how important they are. The typical response is that the student should do it only if the student really wants to. But, to an adcom, it won’t be looked at more favorably than holding a job for the summer…so kid should do what they want…as long as they do something. </p>

<p>And recent threads point out that all of the parents where are proud that heir children value their friendships over the college selection process…and support their friends immensely. </p>

<p>Your post really doesn’t make sense. It seems like you joined yesterday and have no realy insight into the mindset of the parents on this forum. You’re totally off-base, which is a good thing.</p>

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<p>When our first child was born, my wife’s grandmother announced an old maxim: “Just try to bring them up alive.” </p>

<p>I think a true Darwinian would emphasize survival and growth of each born child, and not the competition of each against all (a Hobbesian notion from an earlier era), and not the late 19th Century Social Darwinian notion that only the fittest deserve to survive.</p>

<p>We took GMIL’s advice and focused on helping the kids to thrive and grow and to get along with others, not on developing them into competitive, zero-sum gamers in life. (Never mind that one of them has become quite the gambler; that’s his nature, not our nurture.)</p>

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<p>I understand the reasoning that some give to encourage their children to make National Merit scholar, but IMO in general if academically you receive a National merit scholarship, you may not be challenged enough by attending a school that is lower down the rigor totem pole just so you can get $2,000 for college freshman year.
My daughter would have gotten governors merit aid awards if she had attended instate schools, but she just wasn’t interested in staying in state, and I didn’t want to hold her back…I didn’t want to push her too much either, but not holding her back was just as big a concern.</p>

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<p>A have a question for Calmom. Is this a sudden epiphany on your part? Are you treating your daughter’s education any differently (or more diffidently) than you did your son’s? You had quite an aggressive rep when you were posting on PR in the old days, although your son seemed to have “good values” from my perspective. (After all, he dearly wanted to attend the college that EK4’s daughter now attends, but though admitted there he didn’t get enough finaid, as I recall, and so went east.)</p>

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<p>This board is like Lake Wobegon, “…where all the women are strong (e.g., backhandgrip), all the men are good-looking (e.g., TheDad), and all the children are above average.”</p>

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<p>I find the OP’s article an eye opener if the study is valid. I suspect that it might be. I have heard that in that nearby wealth town I mentioned above, drug and alcohol use is rampant. With an average family income of $146,000 per 2000 US Census, it is clearly a very affluent town. I made a mistake before, the $136,000 was household income, though I don’t understand the difference. Also, I recall that several posters here mentioned that the high percentage of Harvard students diagnosed with sever depression problems. Might this be part and parcel of the same thing mentioned in the article?</p>

<p>Backhandgrip, it seems that for most colleges the NMS scholarship offers are quite paultry, typically a $2000 or so. Hardly makes a dent in that $38,000 term bill. I always found it curious why Commended students were not given more recognition and consideration. There are only about 50,000 of them which makes them quite accomplished students. Is it because NMSCorp doesn’t track them?</p>

<p>When you consider that only 6 colleges had more than 10% NMS Finalists in their Classes of 2004 and universities like JHU and Chicago had less than 2%, it seems that the Commended students should be given more recognition. Particulary considering the manner in which the semifinalists are determined and the impact a couple of incorrect answers can have on the score. Shouldn’t a JHU be proud if 33% of their incoming class was Commended students?</p>

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<p>Iderochi; I MADE A TERRIBLE BLUNDER HERE WHICH HAS INFLAMED MANY POST. Son’s sat went up 90 pts, psat went up 30. YES THAT’S 30 NOT 90. I’M SO SORRY AND AND OUT OF HERE. Sorry, senior moment??</p>

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<p>If I had a nickel for every senior moment I’ve had . . . </p>

<p>30 pts is still outstanding, and still reflects that your S really put an effort into this.</p>