<p>Thank God that, to use Sac’s terminology, we had a kid was who was internally driven.</p>
<p>With one kid, 90% of the parenting I had to do was removing obstacles. I spent way too much time explaining to his teachers that he wasn’t trying to be rude when he said “I already know all this! Why should I have to do the homework too?” And way too much time explaining to him that his teachers just wanted proof that he knew the stuff. That set of arguments went away when we found a school that emphasized tests and papers instead of minor assignments.</p>
<p>With the other kid, I spent way too much time trying modulate her perfectionism. “You do not have to have a decorated folder for every homework assignment.” </p>
<p>The whole “hanging out with your kid” thing is, in my opinion, overemphasized. Yeah, we spend time together, often cooking dinner or watching TV. But the best times have always been when we were DOING something together, usually while traveling. My husband, for example, simply doesn’t connect that well with our daughter; he hates shopping for clothes, doesn’t understand why she has pink hair, and really doesn’t like plays much (she is currrently a theater-lit major with an emphasis on Shakespeare; he saw his first Shakespeare play this fall, because she made him). My daughter has never understood how my husband can spend 18 hours straight writing web pages and enjoy it. However, they both love skiing, and every year they go off someplace for three or four days of skiing, during which they usually end up watching movies every night too. And they’re both much happier for it. In my turn, my son and I go SCUBA diving–which the activity where we connect.</p>
<p>Had a tough time with this thread. </p>
<p>My youngest is definitely not one of those “self-driven” personalities. Actually, if left alone, I believe she would be perfectly content to spend all her time talking w/ friends and taking meaningless surveys on the computer, watching TV, reading, drawing, listening to music, “hanging” with friends, and shopping. Except for reading and drawing, perhaps, these are not exactly the types of activities which will help a college resume – NOR her personal growth. So what does a parent do? I’m “dammed” if I push, as it is seen by others (as she) as nagging. </p>
<p>We discovered that friends are EVERYTHING, so sometimes I’ve corroborated with her friends’ parents to suggest activates they can do together, but these are often short-lived. We’ve suggested, begged, and finally demanded that she try certain clubs or activities that seem to fit with her interests (library group, art group, etc.), by at least giving them a trial period. </p>
<p>So is this “laziness” on her part? Over-involved parenting on ours? </p>
<p>I think that the stage-mom syndrome is so loathed that even stepping in periodically on behalf of your child is sometimes perceived as such, when in reality it is just as neglectful to do nothing.</p>
<p>Kjofkw, we had few rules but one of them was about EC’s, starting in K: you have to do at least one activity outside of school. You can change any time you want but must then stay with the new activity for at least a year. Formed the expectation early and it was no problem. Of course, this elaborate plan wasn’t needed because her first activity was ballet and she never looked back and was thoroughly cemented after she had a walk-on with San Francisco Ballet at the Music Center.</p>
<p>LOL, Momof2Inca!! Thanks for providing some hope to those of us who are still in the trenches. I keep asking my H, “So, you’re a guy. He’ll grow out of this, right?!” and, he just looks at me with that prey-animal about-to-be-eaten expression like, “How the H-- am I supposed to know!” Alright, group :::slugghugg::: everybody!</p>
<p>Sac’s right. It’s how they come out of the box, so to speak. I looked at my son the other night and realized that he is exactly like me. A carbon copy of my personality. When he was born, he cried for an hour straight, not just a regular baby cry, a full-on, red-faced, really ticked off newborn who did not appreciate being <em>pushed.</em> When he was five and in Kindergarten, he told off a nun who put her hands on his shoulders to remind all of the children in line to keep their hands to themselves. He turned his sweet, little face up to her and said, “That goes for you, too.” OMIGOD, that was a fun phone call from the principal! On the last day of his parochial school career in April of that year (school ended in June), he marched out of the lobby proclaiming, “We’re going to DISNEYLAND!” </p>
<p>The other night, I saw the head honcho of his art program give him a rather stern reminder to turn in his field trip journal. Instead of his journal, he’d inadvertently picked up the notebook he’d used for his DMV driving lessons and turned that in, instead. Just the tone of the teacher’s voice raised my hackles, and with that extra sense that we all have, she looked right at me, recognizing…something. My son rolled with it and didn’t seem to mind her tone of voice.</p>
<p>He’ll be 17 in a couple of weeks, and it’s taken me this long to understand that he’ll do things on his own and in his own way. The boy who went to preschool every day dressed in white as <em>Vanilla Boy!,</em> who then delighted in rolling in mudpuddles to become <em>Chocolate Boy!</em> at the end of the day…will somehow go to college. </p>
<p>SBMom, thanks for the great idea on touring colleges! Sounds like more fun for everybody. :D</p>
<p>What to do, what to do . . . A question for the collective wisdom of all of you wise parents out there: What if you see a talent in your child, know that with the right training, this talent could be developed, yet, for some reason, when you’ve gone the “lessons” route, it hasn’t worked? Okay, I’m talking about my 6th grader here, who seems to me, to love music, and would love to be able to play the piano well, yet has taken lessons and gotten turned off. Actually had a couple of different teachers, and neither of them clicked. But now, after some time has passed, she has taught herself a couple of pieces and likes trying to play things by ear. Should I try lessons again (if I can find a teacher with a different approach who is willing to work with her style) or is that being too pushy? Should I just leave her alone? She has expressed an interest in lessons again lately, but doesn’t want a repeat of her last experience/teacher.</p>
<p>She does do other musical things. She is in a wonderful children’s choir, and though she enjoyed it somewhat for the first two years (because she does kind of enjoy just about anything that involves other kids), I was the one really, who was making her do it. But this year (now she is finally in one of the higher levels) she LOVES it. And she also LOVES band, which I talked her into. Of course, the twist in that story is that she was going to play clarinet, but after I got my old high school clarinet fixed ($400 job), the director asked if anyone would like to play baritone and of course she raised her hand and is now playing baritone. I have the feeling that once she got to the next level in piano she would LOVE that too. Like if she could play piano in jazz band in high school or something. Hmmm. I’m getting some ideas here on how to approach this. Tks for listening!</p>
<p>Sluggbug: I laughed so hard at your post I fell off my chair. I remember asking my husband once to talk to our daughter about what guys are like. He looked at me with this helpless expression and said: “How am I supposed to know what guys are like?”</p>
<p>kjofkw: Been exactly where you are with our first child. Early in high school, we explained to her that her grades and activities were not about pleasing us or not pleasing us, but that it was our job to give her the information she needed to have choices later about college. One bit of that information was that colleges would expect her to have done something with her time besides hang out. She also had fallen in love with Seattle and mentioned the University of Washington. So, we gave her a catalogue from UW which included the entering gpa. That really removed us from the category of nags and put us more into the category of advisors who knew what they were talking about (at least on the college admissions issue 
I did find a summer art programs for her, but the main way she processed the info we gave her was to gather a group of her friends and start a mural project. They called around town to see who might want a mural, went to art stores to get the supplies, designed and painted it themselves. It sounds like something your daughter and some artistic friends might think about. The project – which was done for the children’s room in the library downtown – led to her first afterschool job, working at the library, as well as becoming the basis of her college essay. But at some point we also realized that for this kid, working part time was going to be her main extra curricular. You can lead to a certain extent, but sometimes you also have to follow.</p>
<p>Mstee, you said she has expressed an interest in taking lessons again? Piano competency is a very important skill for a musician - it will positively impact her skills in choir and band. School and community bands and choirs usually do not have time to give enough basic music training, not the way one on one piano lessons do (I know what I’m talking about this time, 8 years of piano, 8 years of flute into college, 5 years of choir and continuing choral music for the last 15 years as an adult). You need to talk to her about this, perhaps have her discuss it with one of the professional musicians she knows (the band and choir directors) - piano will help with some of the unfun basic music theory things that will make her a much better singer and baritone player - but it is the “hard stuff”, that’s why they can’t cover as much in school, it takes time. She should maybe “audition” the piano teachers, to find one that fits her style, but you and she should recognize that if she will work with a teacher on music training, not just playing more piano by ear for fun, that it will be a boost to her other music activities that are already fun.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m saying is that, yes, someone will help her play around on the piano, and play by chords, or in a jazzy style, but it would be to her benefit as a musician to do some of the more tedious work that may have originally turned her off piano lessons.</p>
<p>I agree with Cangel. Have her audition teachers and keep trying until she finds one that “clicks”. My D has taken classes with different French horn teachers at different junctures.</p>
<p>For something like music, in particular, I think the “chemistry” has gotta be there.</p>
<p>My son was somewhat similar. He liked playing the piano, but did not like his lessons. At every recital, speaking to the audience, his teacher made the same comment about how my son liked to invent his own fingering - not right, but he somehow got the job done. He now does guitar, but still sits down at the piano now and again and plays.</p>
<p>I’m not a musician myself, but it does seem like formal training (like piano) is still needed, so I like TheDad’s suggestion: involve her in the process of hiring a piano teacher. Make sure that she knows that the audition is like her interviewing the prospective teachers - she’s in the driver’s seat. And trust her judgement on the teachers.</p>