<p>Back in my day (late 70’s in college) there wasn’t much dating. We went out in groups. Couples formed and they had sex shortly after “falling in love”. They stopped having sex when they were no longer in love. There was always a substantial minority who just had sex for fun. And there was probably another minority that was saving sex for marriage, but they were pretty quiet about it. </p>
<p>My sense is more women are admitting that they enjoy sex. I think that’s a good thing. My sense is also that more people are separating sex from the more emotional aspects of a relationship. I think that’s a bad thing. But maybe I’m just an old fogey.</p>
<p>One of the problems with forums is that it’s hard to discern the tone of the messages. </p>
<p>I agree with you that women, throughout history, have used sex as trade goods. But I also agree with others on this forum that women also have sex for other reasons, including simply liking sex.</p>
<p>But there are still differences between the genders, as indicated by the following conversation that took place between my son and my daughter a few years ago (which I am paraphrasing because I don’t remember the exact words, but this is the gist):</p>
<p>S: You do realize that because you’re a girl and you’re not ugly, you can have sex anytime you want, right? There will always be a guy who’s willing.</p>
<p>D: Yes, but I don’t want to have sex with just anybody.</p>
<p>Should we really be shocked ? The majority of households require both parents to work. Most families, not all, allow their television sets to babysit their kids. Kids today are exposed to E.D commercials, sexually explicit MTV programs, etc. Kids freely surf the internet and within 3 clicks of the mouse have access to porn sites. The teaching of morality is no longer a requirement. As a matter of fact, it’s demonized in our schools. It’s a sad state of affairs!</p>
<p>“Your son had it wrong though, ugly women can get sex any time they want as well.” Apparently you’re correct. It never ceases to amaze me the number of men who cheat on their girlfriends or wives with ugly women.</p>
<p>Good heavens! Perhaps they were intelligent, or interesting, or funny. Those of us who are not gorgeous do have other attractions. Or perhaps they were really good at sex?</p>
<p>“Good heavens! Perhaps they were intelligent, or interesting, or funny. Those of us who are not gorgeous do have other attractions. Or perhaps they were really good at sex?” I don’t know about the last item on your list, but in several cases that I’ve seen, none of what you mentioned was applicable.</p>
<p>“the content of messages from girls I saw was absolutely shocking. These boys were WAY behind the girls in their development. No one was being “conned”…”</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s such a great difference between young men and young women. In both genders there are some that are looking for no-strings-attached sex, and some that are looking for relationships. If you look at this forum, it seems like there are at least as many heart-broken boys out there as there are girls.</p>
<p>I started talking to my son about this issue a year ago, after noticing “random play” listed under the relationships title on his Facebook main page. It made me sick. He really believes, that for the most part, that girls just want to hook-up. There was ONE girl he told me about that said she wanted a relationship the first night they were together. He told me he was staying away from her after that. At first I thought that was very bold, but in hindsight, I admire her for speaking up. Last summer, one of the networks ran a prime-time special on “hooking-up”. They had students from one of the ivies and the results of this school’s survey on the subject. I wish I could remember the school. The one thing I definitely remember was that, “60-some percent of girls regret hooking-up the next morning”. There was also mention made that the bigger the school (and hence, the lesser chance of running into your partner), the less guilty they felt. I told my son about this statistic, hoping he’d get the message. I am happy to report that now, as a freshman at a medium-sized school, he is in his first relationship. It wouldn’t surprise me if it began with hooking-up. DH and I have been encouraging him to take her on “date”, but based on his reaction, I think the days of dating are long gone.</p>
<p>“a bit condescending, aren’t you, Shrinkrap?”</p>
<p>I didn’t think so but I’m willing to rethink it.(I did say “humble” opinion!) The post I was responding to was describing middle school girls, and not “women”. It’s been my impression that middle schoolers, high schoolers, and even some college woman can feel in control of the immediate situation (ie. the seduction), but the more complex parts of the relationships with peers and partners are much more difficult. The younger you are, the harder this is to anticipate, perhaps because it’s harder to know what YOU really want. </p>
<p>It could just be the kids I see, but the ability for girls to get “reputations” that can destroy them socially, is still alive and well among the teens I see. Now that I think of it, the kids I see describe a “girlfriend”/“boyfriend” culture in middle school and high school, and with some seemingly clear “rules” as well. Maybe my town is an aberration!</p>
<p><em>yawn</em> Some people like hook-ups. Some don’t (I personally wouldn’t do it - I’m a very romantically cautious person by nature). Whatever. And people can be just as emotionally shattered by a relationship gone wrong as they can by hook-ups - often more so, since they are more emotionally invested.</p>
<p>I continue to be puzzled by the notion that seems to be common on this forum that people either only want hook-ups, or only want relationships. I’ve found that a significant fraction, possibly a majority, of people I know, enjoy and have had both, for different reasons.</p>
<p>I refer to what I do as dating because I don’t know of a better term for it, but it’s not dating in the sense that a lot of older people seem to mean, nor was it ever. It’s a romantic relationship that grew out of a friendship. I would not <em>want</em> a romantic relationship with someone who wasn’t already a friend (I realize that this is not everyone’s preferred modus operandi).</p>
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<p>Amen. And I really loathe the idea that women should be “holding out” to try to get free dinners or other favors out of men.</p>