<p>Shrinkrap, with so many societal forces at work it’s hard to say if anyone is really in control when they think they are. You have a good point that the social repercussions for girls can be greater than for boys. But while social fallout may grow outside the scope of what a middle schooler can control or anticipate, who’s to say that the original action wasn’t exactly what she wanted? </p>
<p>It seems to me the problem you’re describing is that we attach so much unnecessary stigma to personal sexual choices. That issue doesn’t tell us anything about what girls actually want, and I don’t think people are correct in assuming that girls and women are always the ones who want relationships, and boys and men are somehow conning women into sex–nngmm said it well.</p>
<p>While I’m sure I’d be better off thinking before I responded, I don’t believe 7th grade girls should necessarily get what they “want”, if it is for instant gratification, while the consequences are delayed. Some goes for 7th grade boys far that matter. I am not sure how I feel about sort of glorifying the idea that no one wants relationships. Personally, I think we might all be fooling ourselves about that, and that men can often afford to fool themselves longer.</p>
<p>Whew! I re-read this thread. It seems that there are adult female posters who either from their life experiences or through having both sons and daughters relate that females aren’t necessarily the sexual prey and the males all sexual predators.</p>
<p>I go to a small gym realtively near a university of 10,000 students. From the conversations it seems that many of the females from early college age up to their early 30s have a relatively straight forward view of their sexuality and don’t seem unable to say “no” [which some seem to say less than others].</p>
<p>A couple of the 40 y.o.+ moms with sons have commented on the forward nature of the girls and the two 50y.o.+ women (my contemporaries) have cracked jokes about growing up with “love the one you’re with” (a 1960s verse) attitude.</p>
<p>The sexes seem to figure it out whether it is called dating, courting or hooking up.</p>
<p>I’m willing to bet that a significant portion of the girls who regret hooking up the morning after regret it for reasons other than you all think… I, and most of my friends who I’ve talked to about this, regret hooking up the next morning-- not because it happened, but rather because it’s always under the influence of alcohol and, well, drunken hookups don’t usually end with both parties satisfied. (this is, again, in my experience and most of my friends’ experiences, so don’t reply saying “that’s not true! you can have great drunken hookups!” I’m sure you can- I just never have.)</p>
<p>Also, I think the reason so many relationships now stem from hookups (including the relationship I am in- though we didn’t really ‘hook up’ in the commonly accepted sense of the word) is because it’s easier to initiate a relationship that way than by asking someone out on a date, especially if you’re already friends. If you try to make out with a friend when you’re drunk, you can always use the “I was so wasted I didn’t know what I was doing” excuse if you get rejected.</p>
<p>Or it seems a little pathetic that one has to use alcohol to be able to take emotional risks (which is what sex is no matter how much anyone wants to protest). It seems cowardly, not to mention unself-respecting. I can’t say my generation (70’s) was very different though. It just goes to show the self-deluded attitudes that are at the heart of this issue – very few people are carefree enough to be able to enjoy unfettered sex without any consequences. Also, another thing that hasn’t changed, apparently, according to ChellyBelly, and other anecdotal evidence, is that “hook-up” sex, particularly of the drunken variety, tends to be lousy sex.</p>
<p>^^Just want to clarify that “hooking up” where I’m from and how most people I know use it, doesn’t actually refer to sex, but rather anything but sex…</p>
<p>And yes, I completely and wholeheartedly agree that the reasoning I presented for hookups turning into relationships is really sad… though I’m going to again clarify and say that’s probably not the case for everyone, or even a majority (certainly wasn’t the case with my relationship). I should have phrased that more clearly.</p>
<p>If you mean oral sex, it is certainly among the things I’m talking about with regard to middle school and high school kids. (Maybe Bill Clinton thinks otherwise.) while there are perhaps fewer risks physically speaking, the social “risks” seems to amount to the same thing.</p>
<p>^^Just want to clarify that “hooking up” where I’m from and how most people I know use it, doesn’t actually refer to sex, but rather anything but sex…</p>
<p>This is confusing to me. My D has explained to me that 'hooking up" can refer to making out, not just sex. So, I think we oldsters need some help here understanding what is meant exactly by this term?</p>
<p>Chellybelly, I did not find your post sad or pathetic, just wanted to add that.</p>
<p>As I said before, I’ve done research on this very topic recently and it confirms your view that alcohol tends to screw things up. I know it’s much easier said than done but I had a rule in college that once I started drinking, hooking up was out of the question. I just didn’t do it. That may work for you or it may not. I just wanted to share what worked for me. Your sexuality and your body belong to you and you alone. </p>
<p>Interestingly, in societies where women enjoy greater equality, they tend to not connect sex/love the way societies in which women are still essentially disempowered (like the US) do. (They also associate less alcohol with sex.) We love to sit and judge by our own limited pov but the worldwide data often paints a very different picture. </p>
<p>Basically, in the US we support sexuality norms that help hold the male power structure in place and label as “sinful” or “bad” changes in women’s sexuality that threaten it. Well, I could talk about this all night but I’ll sign off for now.</p>
<p>This leads to another question…what constitutes sex? The generation in college today labels far fewer activities as “sex” than their parents do. It’s part of the push for abstinence; kids can’t have “sex”, so they just stop calling what they are doing “sex.” Then they can honestly say they are refraining from whatever their definition of “sex” is (usually *****-in-vagina)</p>
<p>I want to be clear that these kids are not trying to put on their parents. This is something that has evolved naturally as a response to the pressure to be what teens have never been; chaste. Changing the vocabularly is really quite clever.</p>
<p>As for “hooking up”, what that constitutes can mean different things even among the same group of friends. It’s a catch all term that can mean anything from making out to however one is defining sex.</p>
<p>I have noticed that the girls my S dated in HS were very advanced education/career oriented and didn’t seem to be looking for a life mate. From what my S has indicated, of the 8 or so “couples” he hung with in HS only 1 has even attempted to stay together after HS. </p>
<p>Even back in HS in my generation (HS grad 1968) there were a few girls who discretly picked partners for sex rather than “go steady” to make it “alright.” I recall that one particular female who went on to become an MD had 4 rules: 1) talk about it and it was over, 2) there had to be a room (no car or outside stuff), 3) condom --no exceptions and 4) one drink limit.</p>
<p>Since I am now an advocate for not getting drunk for any reason or event (–not even to get sex), I have been interested that apparently there are girls in college in the 2000s who are not looking to get into a permenant relationship at this point in their lives, have sex and don’t feel that they need an excuse for doing so, alcohol or otherwise. These girls seem to operate on a basis very similar to those I knew way back when.</p>
<p>My S is taking a semester to study in the Netherlands. We have discussed that Scandinavian countries don’t seem to have the same societal issues with female sexuality that the USA does.</p>
<p>I wonder if a legitimate complaint of the US college females is that the guys seem to get drunk to get their courage up and therefore “hook up” sex is pretty lousy.</p>
<p>It would be an interesting experiment if a college male just asked females he was attracted to if they would be interested in safe, relaxed, non impaired sex.</p>
<p>Apparently not only do we need to define sex but also a relationship. I would think there is a difference even amongst today’s college students between going up to some random person and asking for sex and at least getting to know them somewhat (not necessarily a permanent relationship)</p>
<p>I don’t actually see that much change in what’s going on, except for the openness of sexual behavior at an earlier age. It is also my opinion, based on what I remember, and what I see happening with high school kids I know about, that boys exploit girls for sex, and girls exploit boys for status.</p>