Here are the stats from the government bureau of labor statistics: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t06.htm.
I’m sure the numbers are continuing to trend up but the majority of Americans are not telecommuting.
@Publisher Nice try. But there are stats on that website to support your claims.
But nobody asserted that “the majority of Americans are telecommuting”.
Even the most stodgy employers–such as law firms & accounting firms-- are permitting telecommuting today–it’s not just high tech firms.
Even many low paid CSRs in various industrious are “home-based agents” and have been for years.
I was trying to point out that @itsgettingreal21 assertion that “Lots of careers/jobs don’t allow/aren’t conducive to the practices you claim are prevalent” seem to be supported by the statistics from the government.
My H has worked in manufacturing his entire career for one company or another and has never been able to telecommute. The only time he works from home is if there is a blizzard or he’s contagious with something.
@momofsenior1: I find you to be one of the most reasonable & rational posters on this board and I appreciate your input.
Working remotely & telecommuting has been around for many years now. I know several who live & work in their homes in the Eastern part of the US, yet work for San Francisco/Silicon Valley employers. Same for major accounting firms, law firms, & for many Fortune 500 companies for customer service.
Working remotely & telecommuting, while not dominant, is prevalent throughout the country at all employment levels.
To not be aware of this indicates a dissconnect from the realities of modern workplace practices. This is not a secret in the working world.
I’m not saying people in some industries aren’t able to telecommute. I totally agree with you. But it’s disingenuous to assume that it’s an option available to most new grads/hires. The stats support that most people don’t have that option. Maybe we can add the word “yet” to the end of that last sentence as clearly it’s becoming more prevalent every year.
I do think we can all agree that in companies where telecommuting is an option, it opens up a ton of possibilities for considering cost of living and life style choices when deciding where to live.
I also agree with you that cities have a lot to offer their residents and the trade off to high cost of living is great public transportation, the arts, culture, etc… We pay a crazy amount of taxes where we live but we get a ton for it and I definitely feel like my life is enriched by all that is going on in our city. People who can be more flexible on their location can weigh what’s most important to them in terms of location.
What is more prevalent in our circle of friends is that people can live wherever but are traveling the majority of the time to different sites all over the country (or the world) so proximity to a large airport hub is the crucial consideration. (I know I’m muddying the already roiled waters here by adding that into the discussion - sorry ; ). My H travels about 50% of the time for his job (down from 100% at other companies) so the airport location has always been a big consideration for us.
Please post this to all the threads where families who earn in excess of $200k/year complain about the impossibility of funding college on such a meager income. The point is that most families who earn $50k can’t afford to send their kids to residential colleges. They commute or attend a local cc.
Which colleges offer substantial financial (need based) aid? Elite colleges where stats are high and admission rates are low. Most students aren’t getting those.
How much do you think families who are earning $50k when their kid starts college have been able to save over the previous 18 years when their earnings were much lower? A common complaint from ~$200k/year income earners on CC is that they’ve only been earning that level of income for a handful of years so it’s unrealistic of colleges to expect them to have saved much for college. If they can’t, what makes you think people earning 1/4 of that income should be able to save?
Merit aid scholarships go to high stats students. High stats are correlated to high income, so most students aren’t getting scholarships large enough to make residential college affordable.
Students can only borrow ~$5500/year, so student loans won’t get them far.
Pell eligible students might get $6k/year, but that’s only if parents are low income. Families who are eligible for full Pell probably don’t have a lot saved.
So an OOS budget for a family with a $50k/year income might look something like this: a $5500 federal student loan + $3000 if the student is in an area where they can get a summer job + a ~$2500 Pell Grant. Maybe the parents can chip in $2000. That’s roughly $13k. Which of those states you’re suggesting families consider offer an education to an OOS student for $13k/year (including travel, books, and health insurance)?
First, your post is very dismissive when you can’t back it up with fact. Yes, some people can telecommute but, as others have pointed out and proven with links to stats, that remains the minority of workers and is often specific to certain positions and industries. Additionally, I never mentioned urban areas as an undesirable factor. I spoke from my perspective with my kids. They are living in cities but some cities are more livable than others due to cost and other issues. No to San Francisco and NYC, for example. Yes, to MSP or Philly, or Portland, ME. It’s thinking strategically based on quality of life, not purely salary, and that will vary from person to person based on their own preferences and desires. And, yes, some (minority) may even telecommute choosing their location for their preferred quality of life.
I worked in an industry/position where I could never telecommute or even get a snow day. The majority of the jobs in my industry were based in NYC but that was not the life I wanted so I found well paying jobs in my industry that gave me a better life balance in terms of shorter commute and lower cost of living while still receiving the NYC salary. Depending on the industry, this can be done for many jobs. To not factor in quality of life and cost of living when making a career decision is shortsighted, IMO. Granted, not everyone has that luxury but it should still be considered and factored in.
On telecommuting. W and I are long time tech workers and telecommuting has long been in our playbooks. Sometimes you have no option but to work remotely (bad weather etc), sometimes it’s a nice option to have (sick kid), sometimes it’s a distraction (“I need to dial in to this one meeting while we’re on vacation”). One thing that we have always felt though, is that nothing replaced face-to-face meetings (at least in our areas of work). It all depends on your job – heavy equipment operators seldom telecommute.
Some cities just have more local job opportunities than others, so if you happen to go to college in a city that has lots of local jobs in your area of expertise, you’re in luck. Doesn’t mean “only locals need apply” in every instance. Many (our S include) are attracted not to any specific city but to specific job opportunities. Luckily for him, many such opportunities in SV and he absolutely loves California.
Wife and I are in the tech industry and have moved quite a bit (benefited greatly from some very generous “move packages”). I don’t have any stats on this, but it seems like in a hot job market more people move. Either to another company or within a company. There was one point in time where we moved within one company to three different cities over 7 years. The move packages were very generous and we were able to make out quite well. But, when bad times hit, people seek security and companies are not eager to foot moving bills.
Not every well-paying job is an office job suitable for telecommuting. Manufacturing, engineering, biotechnology, and many, many other well-paying jobs cannot be performed remotely.
However, if they were earning a much lower income until recently, wouldn’t their spending level be based on the much lower income, so that the now higher income leaves a lot of extra money that could pay for kids’ college? Granted, there may be a choice between money for kids’ college versus other long term goals, but most families would rather have the extra income than still be at the previous lower level of income.
There is a fear that some places in the US will be (more) unwelcoming or dangerous for those of some racial/ethnic/religious/LGB/T/etc. minorities. Whether or not such fears are true, they may be a factor for some.
Rightly or wrongly, bigger cities like bigger Us are assumed to be a place where most can find their “ tribe,” whatever it is.
Paying for college and big expenses is a struggle for many/most. When it’s a priority, folks figure it out.
Telecommuting IMO is a godsend. I remember back in the early 90’s when I’d check into a hotel and dial up to get my email. Then about '97 the UPS guy called me from my front porch to tell me this is not a business. Boy, the internet connection was fast in those days.
I have used the ability to telecommute to chose my professions. When my kids were young I switched lanes and chose a job where I could work from home. Never looked back. My spouse ended up working from home years later in a very different industry and despite the first year of having a tough time getting things done, loves it also. When they had space in the city none of the partners even went it as no one wanted to commute.
Our kids have always known us to work from home. We’ve run our businesses from home and really think it’s the way to go. Our kids realize that being an entrepreneur is hard but they have seen that work-life balance is important.
Fewer millennials are moving… https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/11/22/for-the-first-time-on-record-fewer-than-10-of-americans-moved-in-a-year/
@anxiousenior1 : Thank you for posting.
In my opinion, the most important part of the article referenced in your post is the very last sentence which asserts in conclusion that the downward trend in migration cuts off people from economic opportunities.
A chart contained in the cited article reveals that the most common reason for a cross country move is for job opportunities. (“Employment related” is the term used in the chart.)