<p>I don’t know how to do the fancy quote thing, but…</p>
<p>“What about when the colleges perpetuate and even serve as the breeding ground for the culture by ignoring the negative elements that contribute to it? For instance, when they turn a blind eye to sexism and racism and traditions of hazing that bring out the worst in people and yet foster a tight bond that continues from college to Wall Street?”–sally305</p>
<p>That’s not confined to just the Ivy schools or elite schools in general. That can and does exist in all colleges. Someone growing up or going to school in that environment takes that from college to wherever they go.</p>
<p>Since you were kind enough to quote me, I will show you how to do the fancy quotes.</p>
<p>First you type a left bracket and then the word “quote” followed by a right bracket (no spaces or quotation marks).</p>
<p>Then you paste in the chunk of text you would like to cite.</p>
<p>Then you do a left bracket followed by the word “/quote” and a right bracket.</p>
<p>That’s all there is to it!</p>
<p>To respond to your statement, it is true that people who grow up in environments of privilege/perceived superiority/denigration of others may carry those attitudes with them to college. But there ARE differences in colleges’ tolerance of such attitudes. Whether it can turn a formerly kind, tolerant person into a racist, sexist jerk is another question.</p>
<p>To respond to that… I agree with what you just said. However, there’s no evidence that such levels of tolerance have a correlation to the ‘prestige’ or ‘eliteness’ of an institution. That’s what I was getting at in my response after quoting you. </p>
<p>Forbes ranked Bob Jones University at 606 in 2010 (279 in 2009 if that matters). The institution dropped the no interracial dating rule in 2000. Yes, 2000. And apologized in 2008 for racially hurtful policies: only accepted certain races at certain times (Asians were admitted since the beginning, but blacks were not until 1971, and even then, only married blacks were even though the IRS said private schools with racially discriminatory policies were not entitled to tax redemption), and paid $1 million in back taxes because they refused to repeal their interracial dating ban even after the SCOTUS trial in 1983.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t call BJU an ‘elite’ institution and while I know colleges across America had racially discriminatory policies in the past (against Jews, Asians, Latinos, Blacks, etc), but I don’t believe any Ivy or other peer institution fought so fiercely to keep in place racist and segregational policies in the late 20th century to the present day.</p>
<p>It’s true that Goldman is filled with Ivy graduates. But so is the ACLU, the offices of federal prosecutors, San Francisco General Hospital, Teach for America, and a lot of other elite employers whose staffs protect the public interest and earn a whole lot less than their peers on Wall Street. If you’re going to make assumptions based on one Ivy-heavy employer, you ought to look at all of them.</p>
<p>Fair enough. I would expect a conservative religious institution to be last on board with supporting equal rights for everyone (because, you know, being “Christian” apparently does not mean trying to emulate the behavior of JC…). Unfortunately, several prestigious colleges in New England, including one Ivy, have recently had noteworthy issues with sexual assault or racist events and drawn criticism for their response to them (or lack thereof). So those are top of mind for me in this discussion.</p>
<p>As a person dealing with the (excuse my language) s***** sexual assault policies of the institutions that’s supposed to protect her/have her best interest in mind (ha), I fully understand your point. Elite schools are always in the limelight when they do something wrong, even though those wrongs have been committed all over by “lesser” schools (Long Island SAT cheating ring (I believe an elite NY HS was involved but I’m not sure), Harvard cheating scandal, etc). My point is that this behavior isn’t restricted to just top schools (just like more colleges than the ivy schools produce sub par politicians, corrupt Wall St/banking/business people, etc). So that’s not a unique fault of elite schools. Contrary to some posters’ beliefs. Like Pizzagirl said, blame the people not the school. Someone who’s money hungry will be money hungry whether they went to Harvard or the local satellite flagship.</p>
<p>Going off of Hanna’s post, an overwhelmingly large portion of the people I know at Harvard (which is surprisingly a lot, in my opinion) are premed (because it’s either tradition or they want to help their communities after) or do TFA and other non profit work (simultaneously with other things as well). The good ivy grads outweigh the “bad” in numbers.</p>
<p>I’m sure. But the bad, because of their connections and advantages and the perception that they are superior to others, have the power to wreak havoc on a large scale.</p>
<p>Part of the reason those schools draw criticism for their policies and behaviors of the students is due to how well known and respected they are. I can virtually assure you that many more racist incidents occur at institutions with minimal diversity than at schools which have students from all racial backgrounds and geographic areas. </p>
<p>Also, poor handling of sexual assault happens at far too many schools. One of my friends, a student at a mid tier UC, was beaten and then raped. The way her university handled it was simply appalling and the rapist will almost certainly get off free (in fact she had to fight just to get a simple restraining order). Yet because this school isn’t particularly prestigious or well known outside of California, were someone to pick up on the story it likely wouldn’t make the national news as it did for Dartmouth and Amherst.</p>
<p>Finally, the mishandling of our financial institutions has far more to do with their underlying structure and the governmental regulations, or lack there of, than with whatever material is taught at any of the top schools. In fact, a argument can be made that most of the Ivies or quasi Ivies require more courses where ethics plays a central role (most notably many of the humanities) than at many public institutions.</p>
<p>Places like Goldman Sacchs heavily recruit at ivies primarily because of their graduates’ intelligence and work ethic. If a certain trait is selected for at ivies, then this trait will be enriched in the financial sector. Secondly, the culture of the college may partially change the people who go there, and then this could be passed along to the financial sector.
In these two ways, I think the ivy league may actually influence the financial sector.</p>
Right like McArthur winner and opera director Peter Sellars, cellist YoYo Ma, composer Leonard Bernstein, Microsoft guys Ballmer and you-know-who that didn’t actually graduate, B. F. Skinner, Arthur Schlesinger, Stockard Channing, Tommy Lee Jones, Conan O’Brien, Jack Lemmon, Al Franken, and that’s just one school in the Ivy League.</p>
<p>And yes, I’m sure you could do an equally fine list for U of Michigan or Berkeley or UVA.</p>
With all due respect, a school like Cornell with 3000+ of students/class probably only have 1-200 hundreds graduates who go work at WS. Vast majority of students go on to work at other “regular” jobs, some even work at non-profit or peace corp. On the other hand, D1’s circle of friends from high school, 50% of them went to work at WS. So maybe it’s the high school (or middle school) which is the breeding ground. :)</p>
<p>Hmm, so if the “Ivy Leaguers are the ones in power,” and thus are the ones on whom all the economic and political ills of our country can be blamed, how is it then that the Ivy League has lost its influence? And how is that belief consistent with the claim the-Ivies-aren’t-all-that folks make on every thread on this topic, which is that elite schools don’t have a monopoly on success–that one can achieve equivalent levels of success by attending a whole range of other institutions, including state schools? You can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>No one is saying that Ivy graduates have a lock on all power. They ARE highly represented in certain industries that have an effect on millions of people (i.e., finance). And many of our presidents have had elite-school pedigrees.</p>
<p>Those of us who say the Ivies aren’t “all that” are speaking in the context of prospective college kids today. Many of us have no interest in seeing our kids go into investment banking or consulting or what passes today for public service. We also know, from ample real-life experience, that happiness and success can come from many paths. Just in the last couple of months here I have read at least three posts from kids saying their lives are ruined or they are contemplating suicide because they aren’t living up to the dream of admission into the top American universities. Either they, or their parents, just can’t see a future that’s even remotely bright without the golden key of an HPYSM pedigree. I think that’s sad, and a misconception that’s worth correcting.</p>
<p>sally305 everything in the beginning part of your second paragraph holds true for me and my family as well. Not interested in finance or IB, we realize college is not the end-all-be-all ticket to “success” and happiness, from ample real life experiences also. I didn’t come here to go into finance or IB. I don’t believe there’s a strict dichotomy of “Ivies aren’t all that” vs “omg Ivies are everything”. There are parents that realize that but their children still attend/want to attend Ivies. And, for some people, elite schools ARE the ticket out and upwards. Actually, a growing number of ivy students.</p>
<p>WS firms recruit at Ivies (for whatever reason), so WS firms are filled with graduates from those schools. If they recruited at every college then every college would
<p>There is a difference between “all” and “a lot.” What is hard to understand about that statement? I apologize if I am missing something obvious.</p>
<p>Here’s an example of how the clout of two Harvard economics faculty went unchallenged–contributing to some very damaging ideas about austerity in Europe–until a UMass grad student found calculation errors in their research.</p>