The fine line between confident enough and too confident

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>I read something on the MT board that got me to thinking. People were sharing “horror stories” of people they saw and over heard at unifieds this year. </p>

<p>One of the comments was about kids who leave the audition excited and saying “I nailed it!” or something like that. </p>

<p>Is this over the top or just a youthful expression of relief that no major mistakes were made? </p>

<p>This whole process has gotten me to thinking, and wondering about the expectations being put on our kiddos. I mean, isn’t it OK for them to act like teenagers given they still are teenagers? Do you think the schools expect more maturity than that? </p>

<p>As an adult I still have to check and balance between confident, and not confident, and too confident… .always looking for the balance point… I see my kids doing the same thing, only with much less experience, sometimes the ways they do it can be more obvious.</p>

<p>What do you think?</p>

2

<p>I actually thought that story was strange (not the person on CC telling it; the story itself)–like, what’s wrong with saying “I nailed it?” Why would that cause the auditor to rip up the application? It seems just relief or excitement. True, it’s not wise to say that out loud, but ok, he’s 17; he’ll learn. I had to wonder if there was more to it than just his saying “I nailed it.” He could have been obnoxious or rude, for instance. </p>

3

<p>I was just having a related chat with a friend of mine. Agree that it isn’t prudent to say that out loud but it was probably true. The kid probably did “nail it.” However, that in isolation means absolutely nothing. They may have just been the best version of themselves possible and have every right to feel good about that. But they can do absolutely nothing about the 38 students who came before them that also “nailed it” nor about the 173 who will come after them who also will “nail it” And some of those others who “nailed it” could be stronger candidates. And numerically, there are only 20 spots half of which are for the opposite sex. In short, “nailing it” does not necessarily equal acceptance but it is something to walk away feeling good about. Why not?</p>

4

<p>I didn’t experience things like this in auditions, but we’ve had a few students shadow our classes for the past three weeks and I’ve been feeling that a lot of them have very big egos/too much confidence. Some of them boasted about their accomplishments trying to impress not only the students, but also the teachers (which is understandable, because they still feel like they’re auditioning, even though shadowing doesn’t interfere with the process) and some were bold enough to give feedback on the scenes we were working on, which I think it’s extremely disrespectful and bothered me a lot (because they are observing, after all, and we have been working as a group for almost a year now, we have our own dynamic, we all know each other’s limits, difficulties, etc and people from the outside don’t). I don’t think anyone appreciates that attitude and I bet that if it counted as part of the audition, most of these kids would not get in because the teachers would think “If he/she is so cocky now, it’s going to be a pain to work with that person when they’re actually in college.” Of course it is just a first impression and I bet most of these kids are nicer than they actually seemed, but first impressions are hard ones to erase. Obviously there are still some people who are like that in their first, second, third and fourth year. But I don’t think that is going to stick in the real world.</p>

<p>Having confidence is amazing, I know I admire people that can talk about their work with substance and confidence or that can make bold moves without fear of failing. I guess “confidence” is not even the right word. It’s awareness. If you have awarness of yourself and how you’re doing, you can give yourself a pat on the back when you deserve it, or be proud of what you did or feel bad about it. There’s no shame in that. The problem is boasting. No one likes boasters.</p>

<p>I worked with people who have “been around” for a while, teachers and directors (both at CalArts and outside) and what struck me about their attitude is that they never EVER said “I know everything” or “You’re lucky to have me as your teacher because I’m great” (as some others did). They were humble and their knowledge showed in their work, so they never had to brag about anything. Like Humphrey Bogart used to say “Acting is like sex, you either do it and don’t talk about it or talk about it and don’t do it.”</p>

<p>At auditions I guess talking about how you did is at each person’s own discretion, but doing that in a room full of people you’ve never met really doesn’t make a good first impression.</p>

5

<p>milkshakespeare, that is very wise, and I totally agree. (My jaw dropped when you described student visitors giving you ‘feedback.’ Wow.) </p>

<p>It’s funny that the line “I nailed it” can be taken in so many different ways. When I read it, I heard it in my head as a young kid excitedly telling his parents, and it was accidentally overheard. But the way you are hearing it, it’s an egotistic, self-centered kid boasting to a room full of people, possibly to bring them down. </p>

<p>This could be an acting exercise!-- “Say “I nailed it” like an excited naive kid. Ok, now say ‘I nailed it’ like a spoiled arrogant jerk. Ok, now say it as an Iago-like character who wants to make others feel insecure but sound naive.”</p>

<p>What do you think? :-)</p>

<p>Seriously, back to the original question, while it’s always good to have self-confidence, one should never have hubris or arrogance. Certainly you should never brag about yourself openly as that is just rude, and also it shows that you have no idea about how competitive this business is, how many talented people there are out there, how exciting and big the possibilities.</p>

<p>The more you learn, the more you see how much you need to learn, so usually humility is something that comes with wisdom and experience. My own kids would never think to be braggy because they know how much they still need to learn. I think that’s something that you should always feel as that attitude is what helps you grow as an artist.</p>

6

<p>There are so many uncontrollable factors that go into success in this process (and this business) that it’s not surprising to see kids seesawing between overconfidence and self-doubt. The ones who are talking the loudest are probably trying to convince themselves. I do think that our job as parents is to provide unconditional love and support – but also to let them know when they are sounding a little full of themselves. </p>

7

<p>halflocum, there really are a ton of variables these kids have no control over. I’m so glad my son has a director/teacher who “gets it” and has been able to educate him. He was telling me about how they form cohorts and sometimes you are chosen or not just based on what “type” you are, and no matter how much talent you have, you can be passed over. I had no idea. </p>

<p>milkshakespeare, I can’t imagine how annoying THAT was!! Geesh. I bet you’ve learned a lot in the time you’ve been there. I can imagine that most kids calm down after a while but some… probably never do. </p>

<p>Connections, I love, love, love the idea of the acting exercise!!! My guy was just telling us about an assignment he has to come up with an acting exercise, would you mind if I show him this? I think it would be great!! </p>

<p>My kids would (and have) make the mistake of being braggy, or full of doubt, etc. I see them going through lots of different “ways of being in the world”. I also see them gain experience and learn from it. How did you get your kids to a place that they never make that mistake?
It’s funny, I never would have thought one of my kids would grow up to be an actor. It’s not a common career path in our family. It’s been such a joy though, and so challenging to parent a theatre kid!! Once my guy reached senior year, he’s been in the lead, knowing much more about this world than I do. I feel like I’m constantly trying to keep up! </p>

<p>Jkellynh, I totally agree… It’s our job to love them no matter what, and to provide honest feedback about how they are coming across. If I ever got out of line my mom would have " Knocked me down a notch" Looking back, I don’t know that it was all that helpful. If anything it just taught me to hide my accomplishments if I felt proud of them. </p>

<p>I certainly don’t want to encourage him to artfully pull off false humility! damn acting kids can do it too!! </p>

<p>This time in his life has been full of learning and new experiences for us both. Auditions were a first for us, and he was honored and excited to be around other acting kids. Here in our small town, not many people love acting enough to pursue it professionally. I don’t think he was expecting the fierce competitiveness and the closed posture a lot of the kids had because of that. He is very much looking forward to being in a program where they can work together to excel and grow their abilities. </p>

8

<p>This topic reminded me of my son excitedly telling me that the auditor at one audition told him he had just had an “awesome” audition. Being a person who is older, I thought, Oh dear, was the auditor just tossing out the word, or did they really mean my son wowed him? Superlatives are used so often these days, that to me, they have lost some of their power. Maybe the auditor told every kid he or she was awesome to be kind and encouraging. Could this use of language reinforce “too much confidence”?</p>

9

<p>This is something the kid has to figure out. </p>

<p>Here’s a funny example from when my D was about 12 and had a small part in a community theater musical. There was also a group of chorus kids some of whom were rather unskilled in any discernible way but showed up at the audition and found themselves in the cast. Anyway, one day one of these girls came off stage during a rehearsal only to be hugged and raved about lavishly by the director. Sadly, she was not good at anything and it was painfully obvious. So, then my kid comes off stage and again the director says something like, “Oh you’re so wonderful!” Well, my D was nearly in tears thinking it must mean that she was just as bad as that other girl if the director feels the need to shower her with such ridiculous compliments for doing nothing much. She was insulted and upset by what she figured was a false compliment. </p>

<p>There was one school during college auditions where they had current students planted in the wings to provide encouragement to auditioning students. As the kids came off stage the students told them in no uncertain terms how great they did. Now, I know they mean well but that didn’t work for my kid. it was just noise. But, I can see someone less cynical actually believing some of this stuff. They will learn.</p>

10

<p>Good post Flossy. My D is the same. When my D was younger I used to try to give just praise even if I thought her performance was a bit off for one reason or another, and it was just a waste of time as she’d just look into my soul and know I didn’t really mean it. </p>

11

<p>I thought my son had a nice dose of cynicism in him, but I was caught off guard when he told me the audition story. Being very cynical right now, all I can surmise is he felt it was a heartfelt comment, and I’m trying hard to believe it too.</p>

12

<p>I’m really good at finding supportive things to say to people who weren’t very good in a performance, but my son knows them all so I can’t fool him.</p>

13

<p>I hate the oreo approach. one good thing, the negative thing you want to say, followed by another good thing. I think it can work, if you are really sincere about the two good things, but mostly people use it with a heartfelt criticism sandwiched between two shallow compliments. </p>

14

<p>That’s how my D always heard it, but she has friends who only hear the compliments and walk out glowing. It’s very strange.</p>

15

<p>I don’t think it is strange at all. I work in a High School, and though a student may look like an adult, he or she is still a child in many ways. I think many kids believe what adults tell them, at least initially, and like most people, learn from experience how to tell when a adult is not sincere or truthful.</p>

16

<p>Well, I agree with that, but what is “strange” is how differently people are wired. Maybe, I should have said fascinating. I agree that learning to distinguish truth from fluff is part of growing up but my kids stopped trusting everything that adults told them around the time they learned that there was no Santa Claus. It was well before high school. D has friends in their mid-20’s who still don’t have this ability.</p>

<p>Interestingly, it comes up a lot in college, as well. Not all critiques or tidbits of advice are equally valuable. Professors also advise students to work on this or that without always giving it that much thought or taking into account the students goals. Sometimes, believe it or not, they don’t even remember what they told a particular student and having read some of these performance reviews over the years it’s obvious in retrospect. It’s also very subjective. Professor So-and-So’s approval doesn’t necessarily make or break anyone. There is always another point of view across the hall. </p>

17

<p>Some very confident high school actors turn into much less confident college actors once they learn how little they knew. It’s very interesting, actually. A high schoolers “nailing it” could easily be not what the auditors are looking for exactly. </p>

18

<p>I can think of lots of backstories for that “Nailed it” comment. Say, the student’s last two auditions resulted in a complete blank mind right in the middle of the monologue? And this time he remembered every word?</p>

19

<p>Well sure, however remembering every word is not exactly “nailing” an acting audition. It’s just better to keep quiet imho.</p>

20

<p>A footnote based on tech student portfolio showings. I know of one student who presented a professional, but predictable, portfolio, with an attitude to match, who was not accepted to his chosen school. It’s just speculation, but I would guess the interviewers want students who are going to college to learn because they know they don’t know enough yet. In other words, teachers are looking for potential rather than polish. </p>