<p>…or maybe just plain nuts. Here’s a story about the “Muslim shoots Jews” guy from Seattle:
<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279493_convert31.html[/url]”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279493_convert31.html</a></p>
<p>Sounds more like Andrea Yates than Osama Bin Laden, eh? I guess real life is just too complicated for the stereotyped world-views that got trotted out after this tragic event.</p>
<p>Nice try at muddying the issue. He was quoted as saying as a Muslim he hates jews. The bipolar part might help keeping him from the death penalty but even the bipolar can be prejudiced.
Actually it was not even a nice try. It was dumb.</p>
<p>I like how people are so afraid of the truth. Are so afraid of hurting someone (unless theyre jewish ofcourse) that they just do not want to admit certain things. Its just like the people who say bush orchestrated 9/11. This person killed jews because he was a muslim. His disease is no excuse for it. Let me point to europe, the liberals dream- socialism, diversity, multiculturalism. For yrs they catered to their muslim population, letting the hate seethe. Then BAM the french got theirs. Tiny little holand got theirs, and then the rest of europe when that cartoon was published, and it goes back farther than that. When arab terrorist killed the israeli athletees at the 72 olympic games, some were apprehended and the german chancellor STAGED a hijacking of a plane so he could “exchange” those prisoners for the “hostages”. He did this for two reasons, 1. he obviously was an anti-semite and 2, he wanted to keep his musl. pop. under raps. But europe got theirs and its not the end of it either</p>
<p>“The “Muslim jew-shooter” in Seattle was a bipolar evangelical Christian”</p>
<p>I don’t think a true Christian would be shooting people in cold blood, and ascribing it to hate. Obviously anyhow his antisemitism, whatever its roots, took over. But evangelic Christianity is not about hate. </p>
<p>And I do wonder if an insanity plea will work. I hope not because that just will help people with any degree of mental illness justify anything violent that they do. I think from the way the events went, he knew very well what he was doing, as well.</p>
<p>he was a muslim or he pretended to be a muslim, but he did it in the name of islam not in the name of christianity…</p>
<p>Christians worldwide have a lot of trouble with persecution and violence from Muslims. Look at Nigeria. This is not my field of expertise, but I have heard from people who have more information that it is more widespread than the newspapers in this country generally report.</p>
<p>You are right about that. In muslim parts of africa its very difficult to be a christian. Even in arabs countries. The christian arabs are more succesful and live better lives than their muslim counterparts and they often get discrimminated for that. The biggest mistake israel ever did was abandon the lebanese christians during 82-2000 when israeli troops were there. The arab christians are a very stabilizing and good force in arab lands</p>
<p>You don’t need a religious affiliation with Islam to have an unfounded hatred of Jews. See the case of Mel Gibson… a very fervent believer in all thatis Christianity. Yeah. Religious association does not breed hate, it’s much deeper and complicated than that.
Also, something tells me thatif this guy were a Christian who converted last year to radical Islam, people would have no problems with seeing him as a Muslim.</p>
<p>But you are missing something mel gibson didnt do his rant in the name of christianity. This guy killed jews in the name of islam. He identified himself with islam. Also i see mel gibsons anti-semitism as useless drunken talk. No one should care what he has to say, but if you want to know what the real anti-semitism is now, ask the people who deny israels rite to self defense. Those who say that israel has no rite to bomb hexbullah, or assisnate terrorists or fight back. Those are the real anti-semites bc its just a de facto way of denying israels rite to exist by giving it a double standard</p>
<p>edit: I had more to say.
Well, considering Mel was talking, I don’t see how he could say, “In the name of Christianity, I hate Jews”. Clearly, as a Christian he is making his statement in the name of Christianity. What other way could he be making it? Don’t kid yourself, Mel Gibson is no better than a lot of these ‘Jew haters’ you speak of. There are Christians who hate Jews, there are Muslims who hates Jews, there are Buddhists, Mormons and Christian Scientists who hate Jews. And they’re all wrong. Don’t go after one group and not the other, that’s silly. He made the Passion of The Christ in the name of Christianity, and many would say that various parts of that movie and spurned on by a hatred of Jews. At least the few thousand or more who protested and boycotted the movie. How can you seperate ‘drunken talk’ from bipolar talk? That seems like another ‘double standard’.</p>
<p>not really. Because drunken rants are different from murders. Also his movie wasnt anti-semitic. I am telling you this as a religious israeli. If you can pt out something anti-semitic about it id be surprised. Plus his anti-semitism is harmless. The man is good filmmaker, actor but also a joke. Who cares what he says. What if he said jews had horns and crap like that. We would all laugh. But when its soemthing serious like people dying here in america or in israel and someone says israel CANNOT defend itself, i feel its serious anti-semitism. But hey what do i no, im just jewish</p>
<p>And truthfully, Jews are to blame for alot of conflicts. I am saying that in the sense that so many people hate jews that they start wars and violence and schemes and riots just to kill them,. Whether its sophisticated europeans, russians, blacks in brooklyn, arabs, or plain americans jews are hated. They are histories most hated, persecuted and discrimnated against group</p>
<p>I don’t understand, you seem to be going back on your word. I agree with you that Mel Gibson’s offense is obviously less severe than this sick man in Seattle, however, I don’t get why you’re having such a hard time admitting that Muslims aren’t the only ones who hate Jews. It’s a problem. Hate applies to every religion. I’m not saying Muslims are correct in hating Jews because many other religions do too, I’m saying that they’re not the only ones and to lay everything on them is wrong. I think you should check some of your own religious hatred as well.
edit: I see your last post and I would half agree. Jews have suffered a lot of persucution. It’s an awful awful historical fact. This is nothing new. Lest we forget Christians, who weren’t all so kind in the early to mid 1900s. Something you seem to be choosing to forget.</p>
<p>Look my last post said that all kinds of people hate. But rite now there is a problem with islam. I do not know how to phrase it in a different way. But look at everything logically. This war is against radical islam, not just terrorism. And the terrorism we fight comes from the islam. I really do not know what to tell you. I do not have religious hatred, i am just man enough to say the truth. There is no pt to put qualifiers around my words as backup and say that NOT ALL muslims are bad. Thatsa given, but a problem exists in their leadership and institutions and even their countries. I mean a muslims serve in the israeli parliament, while the only thing jews are serving in muslim countries are prison sentances</p>
<p>Looking back on some of your past posts, I see my efforts here are futile. You understand what you want to understand. “peace cannot be achieved in the middle east without war. These arabs must be crushed until new generation can be born…”
That statement says it all. No religious hatred my foot. Unless you’re right and it’s just a general ethnic hatred against all who call themselves Arab. Let’s stop before I read anything else as shocking or hateful as that.</p>
<p>I think that Mel Gibson is a hypocrite, as he went on talk shows declaring himself not to be an antisemite and then obviously now reveals himself as one. </p>
<p>Being drunk doesn’t mean that what he says is not what he believes, it just means he felt free to say it. I don’t think he can hide behind his self-proclaimed alcoholism. That means that anyone could justify doing anything when drunk (ie rape, racism, violence, etc,etc).</p>
<p>He should have known better about driving drunk, and his new-found bar friends and the bartenders, bouncers, etc, never should have let him drive while intoxicated. He was going 80 mph in a 40 mph zone. That is dangerous.</p>
<p>If the studios and everyone else want to forgive him, that is their choice. But he should NOT be producing and directing the major miniseries about the Holocaust that he is suppose to do for a major network (ABC?) They need someone more neutral, plus he needs to have respect from those involved in the film.</p>
<p>As to Mel Gibson being antisemetic in the name of Christianity, I don’t think he made that connection himself in his diatribe. And I would question anyone being a true Christian who spouts such hate. I think he needs to go back to Sunday school, and spend more time with the Bible and less time in a bar. (By the way, I don’t think his wife is too happy about his drunken escapades.)</p>
<p>The word “these” refers to terrorists and their supporters. And since we arent at war with baeder-meinhof rite now, the terrorists are arabs. Had you read the whole conversation you would have understood that. And i still stand by my words. The only way to win this war is to kill the arab terrorists and their supporters. Israel has for too long catered to that group of people giving them everything they want but getting nothing in return. Enough is enough.</p>
<p>skisaloman: If you are an Israeli, does that mean you are supposed to at some point go back to Israel to fight in the Army as a reservist, ie, can you still be called up to fight now?</p>
<p>I see some similarities to the yates story…two people with interesting religious histories and mental illnesses who kiilled</p>
<p>So at the time of the shooting he was a Christian/Muslim who was medicated</p>
<p>Yes, skisaloman89, have you done your duty?</p>
<p>i moved to america at 14. My parents came from soviet union. If you move when ur 14 ur not required to return however, before college starts i do wish to do a yr and a half as a foreign citizen. I will be a senior this yr and then i will do everything i can to get a college deferrment for the necessary time and do my duty as a jew.</p>