Yes it’s Third Tier Toilet. I was just kidding around waiting for the wether to cool down so I can garden. Back to the Caitlin thread. No more distraction.
There was a 2-part Kardashian special that aired after the Diane Sawyer interview that focused on the Kardashian/Jenner girls and their reactions to Bruce telling them he planned to transition. A substantial part of it focused on clothing, hair and make-up. Kim went through Bruce’s closet and critiqued female outfits. They talked hair and make-up. Khloe came over with a gift of several pairs of designer shoes.
It just makes me wonder what Caitlyn would look like if Bruce Jenner had not married Kris. He might still be Caitlyn today - but maybe in a quieter way, without stylists, photo shoots, etc.
I’m not criticizing her right to look her best. My concern is how much emphasis she seems to be placing on the more superficial aspects of being female.
“. Photo shoots, modeling, professional hair and makeup are routine events for the Kardashian and Jenner women. I wonder if Caitlyn would be a very different woman if she had never crossed paths with Kris Kardashian.”
I daresay that even if Caitlyn had never met Kris, she’d still have her hair/makeup etc done for a photo shoot with Annie Leibowitz for Vanity Fair. Just like anyone who does a photo shoot with AL for VF.
I cannot believe this was said seriously. If Caitlin wasn’t perfectly okay with, nay, desirous off, being the subject of scrutiny for her physical appearance, she wouldn’t have done that cover. Can we please dispense with the notion that the whole circus–cover, reality show–is anything more than a grab for big bucks? The whole Kardashian+friends bunch are contemptible, and Caitlin has signed onto their nonsense just as Bruce did.
“I’m not criticizing her right to look her best. My concern is how much emphasis she seems to be placing on the more superficial aspects of being female.”
How could she demonstrate “deeper” aspects of being female in a way that would make you feel better?
Not just wanting, though, but compelled. And starting very young. Why? I can’t help it, I’m fascinated by biological aspect of it…what occurs in fetal development to create this internal dilemma?
The parents of a daughter, Mia, say she started to say she wanted to be a boy at around age two.
Scientists studying the brain have made some discoveries about the development of gender identity but so much is still unknown.
"The “why” I was referring to isn’t about why a male-to-female wants to alter appearance (duh)…it’s about the “why” it is that a child is born with normal genitalia and male/female characteristics yet from a very young age is compelled to identify as the opposite sex.
And yeah, it’s still a mystery."
I don’t personally “get” being attracted to a woman since I’m a heterosexual female, but If you were to ask me why I’m “compelled” to be attracted to men I couldn’t really articulate anything other than - I just am, it’s how I feel. There’s no “why” behind it.
I imagine it’s the same way for those attracted to the same sex and for those who feel that their body doesn’t correspond to how they feel inside.
I think you’re looking for rational explanations of feelings. Why do you love your spouse? You might say he’s handsome, funny, good sense of humor, whatever but plenty of men are those things and you don’t love them - why?
But there apparently is a “why” to the transgender experience. It’s simply not fully understood.
Perhaps Caitlyn will share more of her initial journey as a woman when her docu-series premieres in July and then we will see more beyond photo shoots, designer gowns, etc.
When I think about my life as a female - hair and make-up are not what comes to mind. I think about my roles as mother, wife, sister and daughter. I think about my ability to comfort an upset friend or colleague. I like the emotional component of my nature - contrasted with my husband’s more rational, logical side. I may not be expressing this very well - but there are so many wonderful aspects of being female - beyond physical appearance - and I hope Caitlyn embraces that.
Even, I confess I think of plucking chin hairs. Hope she had really good electrolysis!!
I have to say I really think that both the NY Times article and Jon Stewart are missing the point about Caitlin’s coming out. I think it says more about Caitlin’s view of womanhood and her desires than it does about society or gender in general. Caitlin wants to be a sexy voluptuous woman, and she very much wants people to see her that way. More power to her. She is free to do what she wants and she is able to get a a great deal of satisfaction now. But as a completely different type of woman. who rarely wears make-up, would not go near a corset and would shun any magazine that wanted to photograph me, I just have no interest in Caitlin anymore. Ok, she’s a woman. I’m happy for her. But she isn’t any woman I can relate to, and I don’t think she, or anyone really, represents womanhood. I do think commenters are over-analyzing the significance of whatever she decides she wants to do as a woman.
I greatly agree with you. Caitlyn is becoming the woman that she wants to be, not the woman that we may want her to be. This should be remembered.
Additionally, when it comes to Caitlyn embracing the emotional component that comes with womanhood, I think she has that down. She has been a parent and a supportive figure to those she cares about. I do not believe there is a switch of emotions that comes with becoming a woman or turning into a man. If she was a nurturing parent before her transition, I’ll say she, more likely than, will be a nurturing parent afterwards. She will not become nurturing just because she physically looks like a woman. What has greatly changed is her physical appearance and if she wants to dive into all the great and fabulous things she hasn’t been able to do, more power to her. She’s becoming the woman she wants to be.
Caitlyn’s probably wishing that she chose a name that people would be able to spell 2 days later 
If she has always identified as female on the inside, then she may not need to be placing emphasis on that, as she has always been female internally. Perhaps just as female as any of us. She hasn’t ever been free to express the superficial aspects of being female, so naturally that’s what WE see her indulging in right now.
I just have to say…if I were chosen for an AL photo shoot for VF, I would want the same beauty treatment…hair, make up, clothing, poses, etc…that Caitlyn got for this photo shoot. While it’s not my style, particularly, it sure looks like the ultimate glamor shot to me.
“I think you’re looking for rational explanations of feelings.”
I don’t think this is just feelings – it’s a syndrome, a condition. Science has helped us understand many of them. We may find a gene or environmental influence that has a lot to do with this one.
Musicprnt, so the superficial is…superficial.
How do we get that Caitlyn “wants to be a sexy voluptuous woman, and she very much wants people to see her that way?” Just because of the photo shoot? If I go for a glamour shoot, my present and future life goals are revealed? Or it’s ok because I was born female and it fit for life- and on some occasions, I may like to look sexy? Not for someone declared male at birth?
Doesn’t “womanhood,” especially today, allow us choices and variations?
There’s this from the Duggar’s pastor, and probably similar misinformation from thousands of other pastors around the country opining that there’s a “scheme” afoot to blur the lines God created defining male and female.
To me, this is just another version of science denial. Pursuing the science of reproduction will help further the understanding that whether it’s God or nature (according to your beliefs) doing the creating, the process of fetal development is prone to misfires and errors…and the lines that define male and female are sometimes blurry indeed.
I read this today on a conservative chat forum usually given to sophisticated and fact-based commentary:
What else but scientific discovery and fact can satisfy those who believe that the tortured process of discovering oneself as transgender is actually a plot by progressives to destroy America from within by shattering gender roles?
I don’t know if you can make generalizations on what people think overall, as far as what one person is posting on a chat form. If you know what I mean. 