Please don’t say things like “these transgenders.” Transgender is an adjective. Not a noun or a verb. Some adjectives describing a group of people can also serve as nouns, but not that one. Anyway, it comes across to me the same way as it would if someone said “these blacks.” Like Donald Trump’s famous claim that “the blacks love me!”
I agree that the makeup discussion has gone off track, but it’s certainly been relevant in terms of discussing the reasons why a trans women early in transition might wear more makeup than other women her age.
lje62, I can’t speak to the particular situation, but if a trans person (especially a minor) goes through the standard therapeutic process which is considered a prerequisite to beginning any kind of physical transition, one of the things the doctor or therapist is supposed to consider is whether there are any “co-morbidities” which should be treated first, or if the other problems (for instance, depression) are themselves a product, in whole or in part, of the person’s inability to express their gender identity, and should be treated together with alleviating the gender dysphoria…
^ I think feminism often sells out women, period. Like any other group, there are varying agendas. Equality and respect for women covers it for me. I don’t see how someone transitioning their human body has any impact on a woman who was born with a female form. It takes nothing from me, if anything, it provokes thought and learning.
I wish people would understand that it is not about them, and how it affects them. It is about the person transitioning, and what is best for them. And I simply don’t know the answer, so I have no “say”. Just like I have no say with people who are extremely religious and strict with their children and wives, or gay couples marrying or people who want to be artists. These decisions do not affect me personally.
I suppose some people object when kids are involved. But if it is not harmful, why should we insist all kids grow up like Beaver? Maybe some people object to the publicity…the public forum. Some folks do put their decisions right out there “in your face”, but no one has to watch. There are many silly women with big implants and hair extensions who toddle around on TV in their Loubitains…Real Housewives?
But the vast majority of folks who live a life outside what is mainstream are probably just like everyone else. Just trying to live their life, raise good kids and be a good person. I’ll stick up for anyone’s right to do those things…
PS: I had to get a lighted makeup mirror recently (I’m old!) I kept “missing” spots of makeup not blended in! I’m one of “those ladies” now! If i wore lipstick it would be up to my nose I’m sure!!
You’re a smart woman, Donna …I’m sure you know that you can make an appointment at a makeup counter and have them show you how to apply makeup since you said you didn’t have anyone to show you. For a classic look, I might suggest Aveda, Bobbi Brown, or Laura Mercier.
“I don’t see how someone transitioning their human body has any impact on a woman who was born with a female form. It takes nothing from me, if anything, it provokes thought and learning.”
Hey - Tell that to the posters on here who feel that how Caitlyn does herself up “excludes” other (born) women! Caitlyn can apply her makeup with a trowel for all I care - it doesn’t exclude anybody, any more than my wearing a red dress excludes people who wear green dresses.
“I watched that Carmindy video. Her five minute makeup routine takes eight minutes, because the five minutes doesn’t include an extended time putting on foundation and concealer. For what she terms a fresh, light, barely there look, she uses the following products: foundation, concealer, highlight, luminous pressed powder, eye liner, mascara, blush and lipstick. And that doesn’t include sunscreen, though in a blog post she says she uses that, too.”
So? No law says you have to use all that. This is called inspiration. Not a mandate. You’re making this more intimidating than it needs to be.
Donna- I think the BareMinerals stores do a great job of teaching makeup basics. Also Clinique counters.
Those are good choices for a beginner wanting a natural look too. Otoh, a brand like MAC would likely give you a more “made-up” look.
Well now we’re getting down to brass tacks and the real importance of the Jenner story; lucre!!! Cash offers from the reality show and Estee Lauder et al to follow.
Shrug. If I were a makeup company wanting to project a progressive, liberal image, I’d approach Caitlyn Jenner with my purse open. MAC would seem to be the obvious choice of brands given their previous use of RuPaul. Is there something wrong with that? Seems to me that’s capitalism at its finest – and if you don’t like MAC cosmetics, feel free not to use them. I don’t see a problem here whatsoever.
I suspect most of us don’t understand some of the exact challenges a transgender woman faces with makeup. But it is nice to see the sharing of advice. I can see it’s girly in a good way.
I think the idea is to accept a new woman in our orbit same as any new person we might meet. Not necessarily insist on boxing her with labels that aren’t really, to me, necessary. Of course, we can still be sensitive to the other issues.
“For what she terms a fresh, light, barely there look, she uses the following products: foundation, concealer, highlight, luminous pressed powder, eye liner, mascara, blush and lipstick. And that doesn’t include sunscreen, though in a blog post she says she uses that, too.”
I’m not quite sure I see your point. She uses those products, and because she’s a skilled makeup artist, she creates a fresh, light, barely there look. She is not known for a heavily artificial, pile-it-on-with-a-trowel look. She always seems to have done a nice job when I’ve seen her on What Not To Wear - bringing out people’s features nicely.
And I don’t see how someone can’t understand that a media narrative that presents girly femininity as the only way to be a woman harms women who are not girly.
It’s not about Caitlyn Jenner. It’s about articles and videos that present girly femininity as the only womanhood. There is nothing wrong with glamour and makeup, nothing. I am not attacking women who use makeup. I have not said that women “need” to eschew makeup. But I have been told in this thread that I “need” to use makeup.
Now for a makeup question: For those who use some sort of a combination makeup and sunscreen, do you put the same stuff on the top of your ears, your neck, and your shoulders? If not, where is the line between the makeup on your face and the sunscreen on your ears?
And that was one point CNN made, that setting up Caitlyn’s shoot as some ideal of beauty or femininity, (intentional or not,) ignored others who may not choose the style. Or can’t afford the work involved. Or may not feel beautiful. Imo, it’s a legit question.
I think most of us who were born female are also affected and don’t quite grasp the constant media influence. Even the notion of “fresh-faced,” which one feels she can accomplish without makeup, but Carmindy tells you how to do with product and process. Fresh-faced is an ideal, eh?
No offense intended to anyone, but I don’t think this thread can easily shift to a conversation about how our ideals are influenced. That’s a big topic.
I use a medium coverage CC cream with SPF, it blends in and there’s no line. I like to wear it because it evens out my skin tone, covers redness, but doesn’t look like makeup. There’s no line of demarcation because it blends into my skin. For my body, I normally just use regular sunscreen as I’m less concerned with redness.
when I use silicone primers like CC cream, I use a sunscreen first, because I use so little of the cream that I doubt I am getting the sun protection benefits.
CFang- You don’t “need” to use makeup. No one is telling you (or Caitlyn, for that matter) that you must! Some of us are saying that MOST (there are exceptions, I’m sure) women look more awake, have brighter skin and enhanced features with a little makeup. If you don’t care about that, no problem.
Perhaps I’m just too woke, but I do believe that women are aware of the constant media influence and expectations on our lives.