The new Caitlyn Jenner

I was quite happy to move to Maine, where fashion is not very important! I feel much more comfortable here than I ever did in Texas, where I always felt like I didn’t fit in, fashion-wise.

Thanks for the support, guys (saying that gender-neutrally :wink: ). Like I said, I’m not sure if I am trans and I don’t (currently) identify as trans or male. I don’t know if this is just some odd phase where I’ll look back in 20 years and laugh at thinking I’m anything but a cis woman, if in 20 years I’ll be somewhat or fully physically male, or if my dysphoria is focused and light enough that I can manage it informally when it waxes through DIY means while socially living as a female. My 20s seem to have thrown my perceptions about both my sexuality and sex for a loop, and I’m not a huge fan of it.

Honestly, I feel like a bit of a fraudulent mess at this point. Every single things I’ve read about trans-ness has been “I’ve known since I was 3, and there was no doubt,” “the dysphoria was constant,” and “the physical was so secondary to the social,” and I don’t identify with any of that. So am I trans?

@“Cardinal Fang” It’s interesting that you mention science. One of my big heistancies about transitioning is the fact that I’ve published extensively and have a growing professional reputation. (The other–which I’m sure many CCers will roll their eyes at–is getting my sorority membership removed, as I do love my sorority even as an alumna, and it means a great deal to me.).

Do sororities remove memberships of sisters who transition to become men? That doesn’t seem very nice. I wonder if they’ll reconsider their stances, now that more people are being open about being trans.

@“Cardinal Fang” --AFAIK, there are no national policies/cases of this, but the consenus I’ve heard among members is that they should, in order to avoid losing their Title IX exemptions as single-sex organizations. I can see why most trans folk wouldn’t want to join an organization that emphases their birth gender, but social dysphoria being an non-issue for me made/makes that a non-issue.

I can understand why a sorority would remove the active membership of a sister who transitions to being a man, because the college organization is for women. Alumna status seems like a different thing, to me. But what do I know? I’ve never been in a sorority.

Anyway, best of luck to you, psych_, whatever you decide is right for you.

Ruby Rose, my latest celebrity crush since seeing her in Orange Is The New Black, released a “short film about gender roles, Trans, and what it’s like to have an identity that deviates from the status quo.” It’s on YouTube. “Break Free - Ruby Rose”.

psych: If you were Native American, you might be considered a “two-spirit” person…and traditionally, it meant you had valuable spiritual gifts.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/oct/11/two-spirit-people-north-america

psych_, I know a trans woman who wasn’t consciously aware of what was “wrong” until she was about 35, transitioned subsequently, and is doing just fine. And I know of lots of others who weren’t self-aware in that way until their teens. And the same goes for having primarily physical dysphoria – you’re not alone there either.

There’s no such thing as a “standard narrative,” and even if there were, you don’t have to conform to it. Those days have been over (at least in the USA) for a long time. As a friend of mine likes to say, “if you’ve met one trans person, you’ve met one trans person.” So if you decide that’s what you are, don’t let anyone tell you you’re not trans enough or authentic enough. And you can quote me on that.

In terms of transitioning in the science field, are you familiar with Benjamin Barres, the neurobiologist at Stanford who happens to be a trans man and has spoken a number of times about his transition (see for example http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html)? If I were you, I might even consider corresponding with him.

Greenwitch, I still say you must have a vivid imagination. If Caitlyn Jenner is like any other trans woman I’ve ever known, having someone “see” something like that is the very last thing in the world she would have wanted, and I have little doubt that adequate precautions were taken!

Just as a clarification, this was only true in some Native societies and most Native people do not follow that today (due to the proliferation of Christianity).

Well, that’s why I wrote “traditionally.” I just find it fascinating that you can find this issue addressed in so many cultures and going way back to ancient times…I wonder if it’s the source of some mythology involving shifting genders.

Tiresias: my favorite childhood figure in Greek mythology!

@jazzymom It’s interesting–when I describe my dysphoria as exclusively physical, people have recommended looking into non-binary (i.e., other than male or female) gender identities, but honestly, those feel more ill-fitting than identifying as female (male feels the most fitting, but female doesn’t feel awful). When I think of the body I want, it’s unambiguously male. If anything, I feel more transsexual than transgender , per se.

When I was first researching non-cisgender stuff, I came across a list of “are you trans?” questions, including “if your sex changed and only you could see it, how would you feel?” and “if your sex changed and everyone but you could see it, how would you feel?”

I don’t know what the “right” answers are, but mine were “that would solve the problem” and “that would do nothing to fix the problem,” respectively.

On a side note, thank you all so much for the support! I know this is just online and all, but it’s the first time I’ve admitted to questioning my sex/gender among people who “know” me.

Even if you use “traditionally” (which does, admittedly, negate the last several hundred years of Native communities with regards to their “traditional” beliefs), it doesn’t change the fact that only some Native cultures believed in two-spirits.

My point was that there were thousands upon thousands of different groups of people with different beliefs. There is no such thing that “Native Americans” believed.

^
Yes–it’s a shame that Native Americans and indigenous peoples in general are thought of as a monolithic cultural group when they really aren’t.

Psych - congratulations! Keep moving forward with such courage and open questions and I’m sure you will find many wonderful discoveries.

I do apologize for derailing, psych. I wish you the best of luck. You should know your CC community is always here for you :slight_smile:

     If you were Navajo, you might have been considered a "two spirit" in the past, before the adoption of Christianity.   Better?

CF - I have not heard of any policies regarding alumnae status of someone who transitions to male. My guess is that they’d retain alumnae status and that informally, a lot would depend on the specific alumna club ( because those are run “on the ground” by geography- the Manhattan alumnae clubs are likely more chill than the Southwest Mississippi alumnae clubs!).

Wellesley faced this problem (as do all single sex colleges) a few years back when a trans man who graduated there - I believe his name is Tim Chevalier - wanted to be an alum interviewer for prospective students. No one is going to yank a diploma that this young man earned, and of course he can show up to any class reunions and so forth, but the administration felt it was inappropriate for him to be an interviewer because the whole schtick of Wellesley is “come to this environment which is empowering for women.” I happen to agree and am happy with W’s policy to retain the language of sisterhood, admit trans women, and tell trans men they are welcome to stay on campus but that the language will be that of sisterhood.

"have worked with at least 95% men for the last thirty years, and I have spent all of that time covering it up, not wearing anything too tight, not too much makeup, anything to hide a hint of sexuality. Men may enjoy looking at you and be far more talkative, but it does not gain you any respect whatsoever. I don’t like anyone looking at me in that way, except for my husband. "

I don’t dress provocatively in the workplace (or anywhere, really, lol, since that’s not my style) but if a male coworker wishes to find me attractive, more power to him. I haven’t found being good-looking to be any kind of detriment in the work world.