Maybe where you are but the name Caitlin has been around for much longer than that. I, personally, know many Caitlins, two of whom are in their 60s and one in her 70s.
I had to laugh at the thought of the Jenner/Kardashian children wanting their privacy. Really? They are in the news every day by their own choosing, including when they were underage. Those kids donât blink without hoping it will be picked up by the news media. This weekend alone there were articles about Kim being pregnant, Kylie (or the other sister) modeling, and Rob going to rehab. They may want Caitlyn to do this on her own, but it is not because they are private people.
My cousin, Katie, is 47. In her kindergarten class there were something like 5 Katies, a mixture of Catherines, Caitlins, Kathleens. My sister is almost 60, and 4 Kathleens in her class - Kathy, Kathleen, Katie and Kitty. Not a new name, at least in the Irish community.
âCaitlyn was âdisappointedâ they didnât want to do the tv stuff, and I think that was unfair of her, to be honestâ
I agree with you. Adult children may or may not want jobs in the family business. They donât owe their parents their careers. A person of a certain age needs to accept that without saying publicly how hurt she is that theyâre doing something else.
My only discomfort with the Annie L. photos, elaborate hair, etc. is that this debut puts so much focus on the glamour aspect of a transition and whether she passes, whether sheâs beautiful, etc. Being fabulous is the measure of a drag queen, not the measure of a woman.
This one individual, of course, should be whatever kind of woman she wants to be, including a fashion model or anything else. But in terms of our national conversation about trans people, I feel this type of rollout is a mixed blessing. Lots of other trans women are dowdy, or homely, or look their age. It may be obvious that they are trans. Think Jeffrey Tamborâs character. I worry about whether this VF fanfare creates the impression that a transition is all about presentation, and that people will view less effective looks as less legitimate transitions.
99% of all the reported gossip about Jenner in the last 6 months or so has proven false. So pardon me if Iâm skeptical that she was openly âdisappointedâ with her children for not wanting to be part of the new show (complete with profanities), and I will withhold judgment until thereâs a little more evidence, Especially since everything Iâve read up to now has indicated that sheâs been very supportive of her kids, and very aware that getting used to a parentâs transition takes time.
jazzymom, blame has not been determined. And Jenner hasnât been charged with anything. If any civil suits prove that she was at fault, so be it, and let her face the consequences. As of now, the only people whoâve determined blame are on the Internet. This was hardly a âres ipsa loquiturâ situation.
DonnaL, I get that you have gone through this and know more than any of of us. But I do not get some of your judgemental guestions and attitutude. Because of what you have gone though does not make you superior, just more informed. So, IMO, get off your high horse.
If there is a list of historical winners, and there is often a notation of living or dead, will there now be a notation of male formally female or female forrmally male.?
A legimate question given her background and the fact she is not dead.
I wanted her to spell it âKaitlynâ!
They will change their names to âCâ, in support.
( but then will Kanye?)
I donât call it being on a high horse when Iâm astonished at someone asking seriously if you get awards taken away from you after transitioning, and/or are âlegallyâ entitled to claim you won â a question that only makes sense if you assume that she isnât the same person she was before. As if I were to have my high school diploma confiscated because it was, in theory, an all-boysâ school at the time I graduated. That doesnât make me superior (something Iâve never claimed); it makes me someone who assumes that people will exercise some common sense. In fact, I actually wasnât completely sure you were serious. If youâre embarrassed by my comment, Iâm sorry. God forbid I express incredulity at an incredible question. But Iâm as entitled to be judgmental as anyone else here, including the people judging Bruce Jenner negatively over incredibly trivial things that are nobodyâs business, like the suitability of the name she chose. As if anything but her opinion matters. Why donât you criticize those peopleâs attitude?
By the way, the lists of former Olympic winners that I"ve seen donât note whether someone is alive or dead. As far as I know, they donât note whether someone has changed their last name, because of marriage or otherwise. After all, Billie Jean King won a bunch of tournaments as Billie Jean Moffitt (I think that was her name; she had a brother who pitched for the Giants, named Randy Moffitt), and I think she still is listed under that name. Also, I think that unless the medal was taken away from him, the East German athlete who won a medal and then transitioned from female to male many years later is still listed under his original name. But if anyone wants to note Caitlynâs name change, I donât see the problem.
Actually, according to the linked article, the kids who want to protect their privacy by not being on television are the older Jenner offspring, not the Kardashians.
http://defamer.gawker.com/caitlyn-jenners-other-kids-refused-to-do-her-new-realit-1708214638
@DonnaL said
The kids that are discussed are the four from Jennerâs first two marriages, Burt, 36, and Cassandra, 34, with first wife Chrystie, and Brandon, 33, and Brody, 31, with second wife Linda. Here is a snippet from Bissetâs Vanity Fair article:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-bruce-cover-annie-leibovitz
PS to my last comment. You also have no idea how hard it is to remain patient when all I see all over the Internet â Facebook, Twitter, even Jezebel â is sometimes-unpleasant critiques of Jenner. Fortunately not outweighing the positive comments, but itâs still unpleasant to deal with. Of course I could just walk away from my computer, but especially in places where there are no other people really able to answer questions, I feel an obligation to try to do so. And I am sorry for being impatient; I have no desire to get in fights with people.
Hanna, I agree with you that the cover reinforces some stereotypes, but I do think the good outweighs the bad. Also, there are two basic stereotypes of trans women: the attractive, âpassable,â trans woman (usually young), who is deemed âfâableâ and tries to âdeceiveâ men into sleeping with her by concealing her past, and the ridiculous, pathetic, ugly âman in a dressâ (usually older) beloved of so many movies and sitcoms. Caitlyn Jenner doesnât fit into either stereotype: sheâs 65, far beyond the age of those usually classified as âdeceivers,â but sheâs clearly not a âman in a dressâ at whom everyone can either laugh and sneer, or feel sorry for her because her life is so pathetic and delusional. So in that sense, the cover is different from the usual stereotype. Iâm certainly happy at anything that counters the stereotype that older trans women all look like someone from Monty Python wearing a dress!
That said, I wonder if Vanity Fair would have put her on the cover if she hadnât had FFS, and simply looked like her former incarnation wearing makeup and womenâs clothing. Probably not, given the ridicule she would undoubtedly face â far worse than anything she received today. One step at a time, I guess.
In any event, thatâs all for tonight. Iâll do something else to pass the time until my son gets home from a show he went to. Yes, heâs 25, but I just canât get to sleep until heâs home!
I for one think he/she is incredibly courageous, although I do think itâs somewhat sad that he had to live such a large part of his life with this as a secret before making this change so late in life. I have met a few transgender students and Iâm glad for them that society is becoming more aware and more accepting of this idea.
Iâm unhappy w jennerâs choice of clothing (or lack thereof) for the Vanity Fair cover. It sends the message that being woman is about objectivizing oneself. I would have preferred to see jenner debut him/herself wearing something more dignified.
"had to laugh at the thought of the Jenner/Kardashian children wanting their privacy. Really? They are in the news every day by their own choosing, including when they were underage. Those kids donât blink without hoping it will be picked up by the news media. "
The children who want their privacy are Jenner 's children from his first 2 marriages. They have nothing to do w the Kardashians and have lived private lives.
âIt will be more difficult for Bruce to transgender to Caitlyn because Bruce is a gold medal Olympian and Caitlyn is not. Can Caitlyn Jenner legally claim to be the gold medal winner of a male sport?â
This is an odd question. Why is it âmore difficultâ? Why would it be any different from a licensed lawyer, doctor, or electrician transitioning? Theyâd still retain their license.
And whatâs the âlegalâ? Where does Caitlyn Jenner need to âlegallyâ claim gold medal winner? The books say Bruce Jenner. If the Olympic committee wishes to asterisk it, itâs on them, but presumably they donât asterisk every time an Olympian gets married and changes her name.
At my dâs womenâs college, those who have transitioned to men still are now graduates of that college. They simply did so under a different name. No one goes and yanks their diploma.
A good friend of mine has a 23 yo daughter who is transitioning to male. Itâs very difficult to process for her (my friend) as she feels sheâs losing a daughter. And I understand that. I will never fully âunderstandâ the feeling of gender dysphoria, since Iâve always âfeltâ like a woman (and a heterosexual) but I have to accept other peopleâs reality as truth. Best of luck to Caitlyn Jenner.
When I was in college 35 years ago, I attended an Abnormal Psychology class lecture. The guest speaker was a transgender male to female 65 year old. One of the first in the U.S. To have a sex change operation. The lecture hall was packed, all of us interested out of curiosity. What we came away with was a deep compassion for this human being. She had been married once, then divorced.
She said she would get calls from around the country, men asking for guidance and advice. The first thing she would ask them is " do you have children." If they said yes, she told them absolutely they were not to transgender. When they chose to have children, their main responsibility was to thei childrenâs mental health and if that means they have to deal with this the rest of their lives, so be it. The children come first. Her words not mine.
Although I do support people transitioning, I agree with one of the pioneers about this. But, on the other hand, I have not walked in those shoes. So, my feelings are conflicted if the person has kids.
I am under the impression that the older Jenner kids (and the ex-wives) ARE supportive - they just donât want to be in the public eye over it. Which is understandable. I can think of few things worse than having to sort through private issues in the public eye.
And to clarify, the ship has sailed for Bruce/Caitlyn - once youâre an athlete of that magnitude, youâre in the public eye and you might as well control your image first (PR 101).