<p>If any of these postings were said at some of the Ivies you’d be bounced out of the school. Better be careful how you approach this PC subject.</p>
<p>The Republicans were quick to dump Rudy Giuliani went he carried on an adulterous affair, at taxpayer expense, for nine months in the Mayor’s Mansion, with his 8-year-old daughter present, so flagrant that a judge barred him from unsupervised visits with his own daughter.</p>
<p>They were also quick to dump Newt Gingrich who took up an adulterous affair once while his wife was seriously ill, then took up another adulterous affair when Bill Clinton was President, and then ANOTHER adulterous affair while yet another wife was seriously ill, and he refused to pay child support (the kids ended up on welfare.)</p>
<p>The Party of Family Values… all “representative of the Republican Party”, says Republican Pete Hoekstra.</p>
<p>“Barney Frank happens to be a happily married man - and married under the same law as every heterosexual married in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.”</p>
<p>Of course some of us can remember back before he was happily married. Some of us can even remember back before he was hiring male prostitutes and using his public office to shield them from the law. In fact some of us can even remember when Barney Closet wasn’t queer. Now however his deep respect for the right to privact compels him to out closeted conservatives. Barney is an ass.</p>
<p>I think Craig’s big mistake was not doing a Gov. Jim McGreevey and announced he just discovered he was Gay and switched parties. If the Dems wouldn’t have him because they are homophobes then he could do a McGreevey and resign, go to divinity school, become an Episcopal priest and family counselor.</p>
<p>higherlead,</p>
<p>What are you going to do when you get to heaven and find out God likes gays?</p>
<p>^ That was funny, but on a serious note, my heaven search tour tells me that there are different heavens. Gay Heaven, Hindu Heaven, Islamic Heaven, Christian Heaven, Jewish Heaven…, and over there they don’t talk to and like each other. There is no Buddhist Heaven. The qualified Buddhists have reached Nirvana.</p>
<p>I finally decided to look into the private lives of Guiliani and Gingrich to see what constitutes the flip side of leadership…</p>
<p>It looks like their behavior is consistent with my hypothesis on what our leaders are really like, which makes me very happy.</p>
<p>What makes me unhappy is the thought that I may have raised my kids with a “sucker” or “victim” tag on them. </p>
<p>All I can say is that I tried… I really tried. Forgive me if I failed.</p>
<p>^^ huh?</p>
<p>forgive me, Canuckguy, but what are you talking about?</p>
<p>Opie - when Falwell died, my hope for him was that when he tried to make an appointment to talk to God, he was told that God was at the Liberace concert that he had waited years to get tickets for but that he might be able to squeeze him in between the robe fitting with Gianni Versace and coffee with Oscar Wilde.</p>
<p>“What are you going to do when you get to heaven and find out God likes gays?”</p>
<p>Ask HER why She was so hard in Sodom and Gomorrah.</p>
<p>Seriously I don’t have a problem with homosexuals. I have a problem with people soliciting sex in public places. That includes City Hall, congressional officies, the statehouse, and public washrooms and parks.</p>
<p>I have often said that I believe hypocrisy is a much over-rated vice. So long as men are not god they will either be hypocrits or lack all values. Which is worse? In Barney Frank’s case he earns my antipathy not because he is an invert but because he is a political hack lacking all values and standards.</p>
<p>BTW cartera45 Liberace insisted to the day he died that he was not a homosexual.</p>
<p>HL - I know - he even sued for defamation because he was labeled as gay. But obviously, in my scenario above, “she” forgave him.</p>
<p>“HL - I know - he even sued for defamation because he was labeled as gay. But obviously, in my scenario above, ‘she’ forgave him.”</p>
<p>cartera45 - Is that because She hates the sin but loves the sinner.</p>
<p>Nope, I think she finds that saying trite and disingenuous and puts it in the same category as “It’s not you, it’s me.”</p>
<p><< Now this was the sin of Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before Me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Ezekiel 16:49-50>></p>
<p>How you get God destroyed Sodom and Gomorahh for homosexuality is beyond me. The destruction was because God could not find enough ‘righteous’ people there. Apparently, the people there were xenophobes and greedy, cruel and without charity to the point that they executed people who were charitable/hospitable. This story seems to point the constantly repeated biblical point of ‘do unto others’ rather than the ‘stop it or you’ll go blind’ meme.</p>
<p>Genesis 19:4-5</p>
<p>“Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house.
And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”</p>
<p>The Sodomites were guilty of a number of sins, at least according to the author(s) of the old and new testaments not the least of which a failure to procreate in an acceptable manner.</p>
<p>However, there’s nothing in the passage you quoted to indicate that this was the reason God destroyed S&G. It wasn’t polite to demand sex with strangers (paging Sen. Craig)…but neither was Lot offering his daughters to the crowd instead. God didn’t get ticked at Lot because of it, leading one to conclude that He/She doesn’t care what we do with our naughty bits as long as we are kind, charitable, and welcoming to the stranger in our midst. </p>
<p>Besides which, I wouldn’t hang a dog on a text from the King James Translation. The men who created it had certain axes to grind…Divine Right of Kings, keeping the lowly in their proper place, and excising references to the neither or both masculine/feminine nature of God. However, they were unlikely to add proscriptions against homosexuality which were not in the Hebrew or the Greek versions…not when the king with his name on the book had such pronounced proclivities in that direction. </p>
<p>We love the King James for the beautiful language and our familiarity with it. If Grandma/Grandpa read the Bible to you, it was probably this version. But it is not untampered with…despite the many people I’ve met who believe that Moses and Jesus spoke English and 16th century English at that.</p>
<p>Well if you can get from the story of Lot in Genesis that the God of the old testament doesn’t care what we do with our baby makers you get the creative reading award.</p>
<p>I was raised with the Douay Rheims versions of the bible. Every geeration it seems has it own political, social, and cultural axes to grinde when doing translations. It is pretty obvious that by offering his virgin daughters as rape bait for the mob that Lot was trying to honor the hosts reponsibility to protect his guests even at a great price to his family. One can hardly take that to mean that God doesn’t care what we do with out naughty bits. As luck would have it though angels of the Lord don’t really need Lot’s help to keep a few butt burglars at bay.</p>
<p>The story of Lot is not particularly PC, nor are many of the other stories in the Old Testament. It doesn’t comport well with the modern liberal sensibility, but it is what it is.</p>
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<p>Have you seen the 2003 documentary " The Corporation"? If corporations are sociopathic, what can you say about corporate leaders that run them? Can other institutions such as unions or especially government, being the ultimate bastion of power, be far behind?</p>
<p>Remembered how Rumsfeld slipped the military policeman who broke the abuse in Iraq a Trojan horse disguised as a “present”? Guiliani and Gingrich (whose callousness surprised even me) clearly belong to the same ilk. As I said before, you just don’t get to the top by being nice.</p>
<p>While I am happy that their behavior confirm my theory of so-called “leadership”, I am wondering if I have done as good a job as I could have with my children. IOW, have I armed them sufficiently for the reality out there. I know the schools have not done enough, I just don’t know if I have.</p>
<p>How did this thread get so far afield from Larry Craig? Can we please stick with what we already know? And can we please stop trying to rationalize or minimize Craig’s conduct by citing attrocious behavior by persons with whom we disagree. This means you Tom DeLay.</p>
<p>I second that, Lake Washington. Using selected Bible verses as weapons of argument is surely not what the good Lord intended.</p>