The Results of Choosing a Full-Ride State School Scholarship

Parents Forum
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<p>In light of the continuing debates here on CC over whether or not to take a large scholarship at a state school Honors program or go to an expensive private school, I thought it’s time for me to offer another personal example along the lines of students like evil_robot and others. I not only want to talk about how exceptional the experience at the state school has been, but to also emphasize how the outcomes for top students who choose the state school are certainly on par with any prestigious private school. </p>

<p>Four years ago I chose a large state school’s scholarship over several other large state school scholarships, several generous scholarship offers (ranging from 2/3 tuition to a full ride) from top-20 schools, and an Ivy League school. I ended up with the University of Georgia’s Foundation Fellowship, casting my lot in with a school ranked a mere 20th among public universities and known far more for football than academics at the time. </p>

<p>Here’s what I got for my decision: I’ve studied abroad in Dubai for a semester, taken a cross-country geology/ecology/anthropology roadtrip that featured professors lecturing at a different national or state park across the nation each day for an entire summer, had breakfasts and lunches with Pulitzer-Prize winning authors, conducted field research on political violence in Kenya, interned at the Clinton Foundation, researched on everything from World War II to terrorism to Nuclear non-proliferation to US Intelligence Reform, and took spring break trips to Bosnia, Florence, and Washington DC. All of this was fully funded by the Fellowship in addition to tuition, room, board, and books every year. </p>

<p>I was also a finalist for a major national scholarship this year thanks largely to the hard work of the people in UGA’s Honors program who helped me through the 100+ hours I spent preparing my application and the many professors who graciously gave up their time to mentor me, guide me, and recommend me for both these scholarships and grad school. These professors, from a wide variety of disciplines including many far outside the realm of my major, were incredibly accessible; from lunches to office hours to just shooting them emails about a particularly interesting news story, I could always count on them to treat me with respect. I’ll likely be back for another shot at these scholarships next year, again with their full support. </p>

<p>But those tangible benefits were secondary to the overall experience; even though I knew a grand total of one student coming into a 33,000 person university, I had a ready-made support group of 60 older fellows plus the other 20 students in my incoming class. If I ever had a question or needed advice, I could turn to someone who had likely been there beforehand or the wonderful staff at the Honors College who would literally put down what they were doing and help me out with anything. Having the top students in the school as some of your best friends was also incredibly intellectually stimulating; people doing research on stem cells, interning with Barack Obama’s senate office, or putting together effective and lasting community activist organizations were also the same people with whom you snorkeled the Great Barrier Reef, explored the ruins of Petra, or cheered with at a football game. And although Honors students were great too, I also enjoyed getting to know and hang out with non-Honors students with a great array of talents in other organizations as well. </p>

<p>I literally could go on forever about the benefits of the program, but I want to move on to some of the more concrete results as well since I know many parents are concerned about where their children will end up afterwards after taking these scholarships. </p>

<p>Next year, I’ll likely be entering a PhD program easily ranked in the top 10 in my field with the top fellowship the department offers and a gorgeous West Coast beach setting to boot. While I didn’t get into every grad school to which I applied (and being from a relatively unknown state school may have something to do with that), I’m confident that I’ve been put on track to successfully compete with students from anywhere else in the nation in the job market and the larger forum of academic research in general. </p>

<p>While my example is only one case study (the social scientist in me feels the need to note that I lack the data for large-N analysis), here’s what the students from last year’s class of Fellows at UGA ended up doing this year (note that this is a complete list; I have not excluded anyone):</p>

<p>UVA Law
Fulbright Scholar
Consultant/Intern at the Carter Center
UT-Memphis Med School
Self-created nonprofit, Namibia
English Teacher, Spain
Intern, Tampa Tribune
Mayo Medical School
American Constitution Society (DC)
Teach for America (New Orleans)
International Business, China
Self-created nonprofit, Ghana
Yale School of Medicine
PhD in Finance, Vanderbilt
Harvard Law
MD/PHD in Neuroscience, Emory
MA in International Policy Studies, Stanford
Rhodes Scholar, Oxford
Suntrust Investment Banking
Stanford Law
PhD in Computer Science, Georgia Tech
PhD in Biostatistics, Johns Hopkins </p>

<p>I also know of plenty of “regular” UGA Honors students who ended up pursuing great opportunities around the world as well. </p>

<p>So in conclusion I not only want to echo the sentiments of many CC posters in the past who have advocated for taking the debt-free scholarship route at a lower-ranked school, but to offer a further and perhaps controversial opinion: For a significant portion of high-achieving students, these kinds of scholarships might actually help them succeed far more than paying full freight at a more prestigious school. I know for certain that I never would have been able to afford all the international travel nor would I have had the ability to work directly with faculty on research from my freshman year onward. While I may have gotten other exceptional opportunities at some of the other schools, particularly the other state schools, I doubt that I would have had any as good as what I got at a very “average” state school by most official rankings. </p>

<p>For students and their parents considering a similar dilemma, know that your education is only what you make of it. Though you might face some unique challenges by choosing the state school route, the rewards can easily outweigh any disadvantages that might result. Think very carefully about what situation you’ll be stepping into at each school you visit and make the best decision you can based on those unique circumstances. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Nice post. Wish every CC parent and parents everywhere would read it.</p>

<p>Not only do large (and small) state u’s provide a great education for students but the large ones usually have great research facilities as well and are doing great things.</p>

<p>There is so much opportunity for students on large campuses and the classes are not necessarily large.</p>

<p>I also went to a large ($40,000 state u) and had a wonderful time and got an excellent education. I stayed for grad school and turned down UVa’s where I though I wanted to go, but in the end I visited and thought it was incredibly subpar.</p>

<p>Also, a friend at my large state u went to a local private, smaller U for grad school and found them using textbooks we had used in undergrad.</p>

<p>Everyone is so focused on rank and prestige, but unless you actually were a student at any of these schools, you really don’t know a whole lot.</p>

<p>Again, great post. Glad you also had such a great experience. (Schools in GA and Fl offer great scholarships based on GPA. No reason not to check them out.)</p>

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<p>“For a significant portion of high-achieving students, these kinds of scholarships might actually help them succeed far more than paying full freight at a more prestigious school.”</p>

<p>I agree with this.</p>

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<p>Your post is exactly what I had hoped to hear (or read in this case). How much did “fit” play in your decision?</p>

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<p>Just to put things into some kind of perspective, the Foundation Fellows program at UGA is very, very small. I have known students that went to UGA in the honors program and did very well. These are students who are very directed and very outgoing and have the ability at 18 to push through the beaucracy inherent in any large organization.</p>

<p>I have also known students in the Honors program who just fell apart, the advisors weren’t as knowledgeable as they should have been, there were many hoops to jump through to actually get to apply to get into their major.</p>

<p>In Georgia, we have the HOPE scholarship, so UGA is a bargain anyway. I have a d accepted to UGA and the honors program two years ago, refused to apply to FF. Once again it is all about fit. Many, many students leave UGA every year because it is too large and too impersonal.</p>

<p>Vig180 had a good experience and so have many others, but it is not necessarily the experience the average student is going to have.</p>

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<p>Vig, that list of results from this year’s fellows is simply … inspiring.</p>

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<p>I am not trivializing the OP’s opinion. My hat’s off to you for having the initiative to take advantage of what the program offered.</p>

<p>However, it’s interesting that it’s the state university graduates/students who go on and on and on about what exceptional experience they had while in the State U. The Ivy, Stanford, U Chicago, MIT, Caltech type crowd does not even seem vested in justifying/rationalizing their decision. </p>

<p>Did it occur to anyone that all the things the OP is mentioned is SO MUCH MORE COMMON, not an exception, in prestigious schools listed above that they don’t even merit such lengthy rationalization? </p>

<p>There is a reason why Statistics is an accepted science. Average numbers do matter. The fact that there are a couple of balmy days in December in Colorado should not be the reason for you not to pack overcoats when you visit that place in the winter. </p>

<p>I am all for students/families choosing state U with merit money over Ivies. But call a spade a spade. It would be a decision based primarily on financial consideration. If money is not an issue, what ambitious and brilliant young people would pass the opportunity to study at, say, Harvard that regularly features ex heads of presidents as visiting faculties and U Chicago where Nobel Laureates are dime a dozen - just so that they can go to a big State U where amazing experiences are an exception, and the rest of the student body does not seem to share a deep well of intellectual curiosity with them. Of course, there are exceptions to this observations too. However, again, we are talking about general tendencies.</p>

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<p>“However, it’s interesting that it’s the state university graduates/students who go on and on and on about what exceptional experience they had while in the State U. The Ivy, Stanford, U Chicago, MIT, Caltech type crowd does not even seem vested in justifying/rationalizing their decision. “</p>

<p>I know students who were fortunate to have some amazing college choices and instructed to make their final choice without regard to money. Students who went the special scholarship route and students who went “The Ivy, Stanford, U Chicago, MIT, Caltech” route. It is not at all clear to me one route is better. Mentorship opportunities for those in the scholarship programs were amazing. Those that did the ivy route were in special programs within the university so that makes the comparison even harder. I don’t think the list the OP posted of after grad results is “typical” of ivy grads. Though I must confess it is typical of the students I know. jmho fwiw</p>

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<p>Even though we went the other route for college thanks to merit scholarship, the concept of a “school within a school” served us well from K-12 in the public school system. Honors Programs continue this concept at college level. It works just as well as the students get extra attention and start sharing with others with the “same deep well of intellectual curiosity” from day one. Congrats vig.</p>

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<p>Individual stories can teach and inspire. This one is capable of both. But we never have a control experiment for our choices in life. I think that the title of vig180’s post fails to give enough credit to the intelligence, the drive, the open-arms approach to the world, and the open mindedness of a young intellect soaking up all that a great college experience has to offer. I suspect that Vig180 and her/his colleagues/fellow students would have achieved great things in any environment. I salute them. We need more like them. But I seriously doubt that these glorious accomplishments are the “results of choosing a full-ride state school scholarship.”</p>

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<p>Sharing ones experience is not rationalization. That you read it as such provides a partial answer to your question. </p>

<p>People assume greatness at the schools you mentioned. We are going to be the first of our close friends to send a child to college. The sheer amount of misinformation out there about the schools you listed and state schools is mind boggling. And before I began this process, I was just as misinformed. </p>

<p>Most adults go by their own experiences. When I share with people the scores it takes to get into the flagship U they went to 20 years ago, they cannot believe it. By far the most common response is, “I could never get in there now.” And these are bright, successful people. </p>

<p>I’ve come to see a lot of these “school within a school” programs as the best of both worlds. My kid will have that experience of peers and professors but will also be part of a far more diverse community. It seems like a good balance of the protection of the classroom with having to deal with the realities of working with everyone in a community, be it neighborhood or work place.</p>

<p>We have not made our decision yet. I don’t know if my son will go to an Ivy or a state or somewhere else altogether. But I do know that the choice is not cut and dry well beyond the money issue. At least not for us.</p>

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<p>Congrats to you and thanks for your post. </p>

<p>My belief is that good students with drive and determination will find a way to get the most out of whatever school they attend. It sounds like that is exactly what you did. The other thing I really noted from your story is that faculty and staff made time to give you attention and support. I will say from personal experience, I’ve noticed sometimes that top students at less highly ranked schools do get greater access to these resources that they would if they were more the typical student at a more highly ranked school.</p>

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<p>I understand why the OP sounds like he/she is “justifying/rationalizing” the decision. In many environments, students like the OP are considered real curiosities when they graduate from high school. People treat you like you’ve lost your marbles. They question your choice and feel that it’s perfectly okay to interrogate you about it. Why are you going to the state university–no matter how great the program–when you could have gotten into an Ivy League school? They wonder why your parents wouldn’t sacrifice more to give you a better education. After all, you’re so smart. Why would you think of wasting your intellect in an environment like the state school? How will you be challenged? Won’t you be lost in such a huge student body? Don’t you know that honors programs often aren’t what they promise to be? And what about the impact of a state university education on your future? Will you get into a good grad school? Or will you get a decent job? Head-shaking and eye-rolling aren’t uncommon.</p>

<p>I enjoyed your story, vig180. You sound like you have an exciting future ahead of you.</p>

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<p>I agree. And I’m not going to pretend that the average student at UGA gets the same education as the average student at Chicago. But I am saying that for students who have the academic motivation and record to get into Chicago would also have an excellent chance at being just as, if not more successful, at a good state Honors program on a full scholarship. Plenty of “regular” Honors students at UGA have great success as well- off the top of my head I can think of one going to Harvard Law and two going to UVA Law and another deciding between several Ivy League math PhD programs. Students who are self-motivated can succeed almost anywhere, but there are also unique aspects of UGA (and probably many other state universities as well) that make a difference. </p>

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<p>I respectfully disagree. Could I have walked into the office of a distinguished professor at an Ivy League school my first semester in college and said “I want to help you write your book” and then wind up doing research the next semester for that professor? Could I have taken an advanced grad-level seminar my second semester of college on Nuclear Weapons Proliferation from some of the top experts on that topic in the nation and then helped run a Symposium on the same topic the semester after that? Could I have afforded to take an unpaid internship and study abroad without the scholarship support I received? Likely not. But I did do all these within the first 12 months of going to UGA. </p>

<p>And while some people may look down on non-Honors students and classes, I enjoy having a variety of classes from which to choose. One of the best classes I’m in right now is an agriculture class and the insights that the sons and daughters of farmers have make the class a whole lot more interesting than some of the liberal arts classes that I’ve had, plus I’ve learned more than I every thought I could about food-borne pathology. I didn’t even know that UGA happened to have a world-class Agrosecurity program until last year, but I feel fortunate that I now have at least a basic introduction to a little-studied but vital part of the US infrastructure that has some crossover ties to my interests in studying terrorism. Almost every state university has at least a few world-class professors and programs and students who are willing to seek those opportunities out can definitely make use of them.</p>

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<p>^^^^With your will and determination I’m sure you would have been as successful anywhere you went, public or private. Being very smart I’m also sure had a lot to do with it.:)</p>

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<p>^vig180,
I applaud you. And you are not alone. The reality that the private school fans continue to deny is that there are in fact many thousands like you—in sheer numbers, far more highly motivated, academically gifted and high-achieving students at public universities than at all the elite privates combined. This is not to deny the quality of the education they receive, or the doors their education opens to them. But they’re just so da*ned defensive about having to pay $50K/year for that privilege that they feel compelled to put down the publics that deliver virtually identical results to the highly motivated and academically gifted at a fraction of the cost. And they continue falsely to insist that people like you are truly “exceptional” cases rather than an important and substantial subset of the whole, numerically surpassing the elite privates. Their loss, in understanding of how the world really works. Our collective loss, in the counterproductive and divisive elitist attitudes that view reflects and fosters.</p>

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<p>“Could I have afforded to take an unpaid internship and study abroad without the scholarship support I received? Likely not.”</p>

<p>Excellent point vig180!</p>

<p>I had the great good fortune to study at a known-on-cc-LAC back in the '70s. Every single summer I was back home working so that I could pay my share that remained after my quite generous financial aid. So was my roommate, and all of our friends on financial aid. We missed out on a lot of interesting summer/holiday experiences that our friends from richer families were able to take advantage of. Likewise, my roommate and I went into the workforce immediately upon college graduation, and had to pass up internship and volunteer opportunities because the college loans were coming due.</p>

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I disagree. I think it IS likely. Which is not to down-grade YOUR experience! You got a great deal - albeit one that is available only to the very tippy, top of students at a big public U. But the experiences you talk about are available to a lot of students at the tip-top well-funded private U’s. My daughter (right now) is studying abroad as a recent graduate on her university’s dime. Her university has programs that pay well for students to do their own research, work with a prof, or work with nonprofits or study abroad - and not for just the top 20 students in the school!</p>

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<p>Agree with anxiousmom.
My daughter’s school will credit her account with the summer earnings expectation for about any non-profit, unpaid activity. The access to professors is what you’d expect from a school with a 5:1 student professor ratio. And let’s not forget that professors aren’t interchangeable from school to school. All this is available to EVERY student there.
Not putting your experience down. Whoever would? Just correcting your misconceptions.</p>

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<p>I don’t generally like to charge into polarized discussions like this one, ever since completing my CC detox program :), but here goes.

As others have said, this happens all the time at top universities. For example, my own D spent her O week visiting labs and had offers to work at 5 different ones, four of them paid (of course, she chooses the unpaid one…but started getting paid for her work the next quarter.) Grad seminars? She did so the summer after her first year. </p>

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The rub here is “motivation” but the story is actually more complex. I have no doubt that one can find a peer group of 60 or so at UGA, since the U essentially went out and purchased that number through merit aid programs and such (OK, I exaggerate - some top kids no doubt came without merit aid…), but that’s a pretty small peer group. </p>

<p>Let me relate our own family story. Just about 5 years ago, my own alma mater, Michigan State U, paid to fly my D to E. Lansing so she could compete in their ADS program. Long story short she won one - full ride for four years with other benefits, much like similar programs at most top state U. She then asked me if she would be one of the smartest kids on campus (keep in mind, 16 year olds ask such questions. ). I called my former adviser who still worked on campus. He told me of the differences between now and when I went there: Fewer top students, fewer OOS. This was consistent with what I had read regarding intellectual stratification in higher ed across the country (and we can discuss this in a separate thread if anyone cares). So I had to reluctantly answer my D’s question with a “yes you would…” </p>

<p>She had no desire to be “one of the stars”, so she chose to go elsewhere. For her, it was the best decision she (and we) ever made. Money was an issue for us, so we struggled and sacraficed for four years to pay her bill, but we have no regrets. She was able to accomplish things I could not even imagine as an undergrad. She had an amazing set of peers, not just those recruited through merit aid programs. It worked for her. </p>

<p>There is no question that great opportunity exists at flagship state U. Been there, seen it first hand. But there is great opportunity to get distracted, to achieve when the bar is set a bit to low, and to be disappointed by rather unmotivated fellow students or faculty.</p>

<p>More importantly, in this day of financial crisis at the state level, there is risk that cuts will be made in ways that hurt our children. Yes, these cuts are taking place at Harvard (-5%), Yale (up to -7.5% now) and Chicago (unspecified…). But consider U. Maryland - everyone takes one day off per month - more to come, on top of other budget cuts. When you consider that expenditure per student was never as high at a state U as at a top private, the impact of the budget crisis is even more severe - and risky to our kids.</p>