<p>The SAT is more of a reasoning test–although that is slowly changing. On the other hand, the ACT is more of an achievement test and is more straightforward. Some people prefer one over the other. What about you?</p>
<p>Which test do you think is a better measure of academic potential and intelligence? And why?</p>
<p>It’s all a matter of semantics. </p>
<p>The SAT is not MORE a test of reasoning. It IS a test of reasoning. The discussion about “achievement” is non-sensical, especially when used to define the ACT. The ACT, except for it incongruous format, has done nothing else than try to emulate the SAT, and has accomplished that with partial success. The biggest difference between the SAT and ACT is that the ACT is more a paint-by-the-numbers that rewards speed and does not punish wild guessing. While intelligence obviously plays a role in how successful a candidate can be, the test are poor measures of intelligence, as there are many type of intelligence and only a couple of facets appear on either the SAT and ACT. The fact that much can be gained from dedicated, proactive, and … repetitive practices indicates that measuring raw intelligence is not the objective of the tests. </p>
<p>All in all, it comes to personal preferences, and perhaps to the academic environment of students. </p>
<p>And, fwiw, too much ado is generated by the SAT or the ACT. It is a simple test that only matters for admissions’ purposes. Some dispute that fact, although I happen to think that it does a fine job and could be developed in a much stronger and representative test if it were to substitute the AP’s prominence in its administration. What should be done is to move the AP to monthly administrations a la SAT, and have a fuller SAT offered during the school year in a manner similar to the PSAT, but over a few days.</p>
<p>None. They are way too low level and not related to the college academic level at all.
If you are a slow reader with the high comprehension rate, then you will do better on ACT because of science section, which is not a science, but a slower Reading. If you are a faster reader, than the chance is that your SAT and ACT will be at about the same level and more or less will differ based on luck</p>
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<p>These aren’t necessarily the same thing. Also I think it’s a touch ironic that they tests “tout” the readiness for college since until a few years ago the only kids that took the test were those that were interested in college. Now that some states require the ACT you start to be able to draw some conclusions about who is ready or not for college. But, I agree, that there is alittle too much emphasis put on the scores, mostly by USNWR more than the colleges. How kids do in high school (so unweighted GPA) and what classes they took are probably better predictors of potential success. </p>
<p>IQ, not so much. You could have an extremely high IQ and be totally dysfunctional and unable to cope with the world we live in or you could have a mediocre IQ and go on to do amazing things.</p>
<p>The only way to predict is the presence (or absence) of hard working ethic. No genius is reguired in UG and in most Grad. Schools. Hard working person will achieve at both.</p>
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<p>I hope you realize that the test makers had to make (downwards) changes to ensure that the average scores would not dip below 500! I do not know anything about your environment, but I think that you are massively out of touch on this issue. Both in understanding of the contents of the test and the performance of the typical students on those low level tests. </p>
<p>This said, I will grant you that the performance on those tests is indeed VERY low, but that it also corresponds very well to the expected performance of the students in higher education. And that is why the bulk of the universities have to offer large number of remedial classes to attempt to overcome the dismal product of our secondary education in the US.</p>
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<p>Partly true, but the best predictor is a combination of both GPA and … test scores. The problem with the GPA is that they measure utterly unstandardized elements and do not have comparable scales. Take a look at the scoring system in say … South Carolina to get a picture of all that could be wrong to use the GPA as the best metric. </p>
<p>Further take a look at the reported GPA of all SAT takers. It should be frightening to all to see how prevalent the reports of students earning at least a B+ is. We have a nation of quasi illiterates graduating from high schools with B averages. </p>
<p>Without a controlling element such as standardized tests, you really have a sea of nothingness, with high grades obtained by mere presence and placing sufficient apples on the desk of teachers.</p>
<p>“I hope you realize that the test makers had to make (downwards) changes to ensure that the average scores would not dip below 500! I do not know anything about your environment, but I think that you are massively out of touch on this issue.”
-This comment reflects that the commenter did not take the test. I did many problems on the SAT/ACT and can reassure you that these tests have absolutely nothing to do with the academic level at the colleges, passing these tests even with the highest scores will not ensure anything in regard to college. Kid might be prepared under parents supervision and then drop everything while in college. Only if the kid continue working hard at college and beyond, then he will be successful. Very smart kids might derail easily if they do not do the work. At the same time, absolutely no genius is required to graudate from college with straight As adn there is no test that will predict this. SAT/ACT have noting to do with measuring of intellingence and I do not know any test that does it.</p>
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<p>Oh, the power of the non sequitur!</p>
<p>You made a similar comment a few weeks ago. I invited you to check my history on this site. Yet, you still are covering yourself in ridicule by posting non-sense about my … not taking the SAT. If you want to discuss the SAT structure, contents, and changes since its creation, I am more than willing to compare notes … and knowledge. </p>
<p>In the meantime, if you want to pass for someone who knows a modicum about the test, and something beyond your vicarious experience through your child, I’d suggest to actually start reading a bit about it, and stop confusing your faulty opinions about the test with common knowledge. </p>
<p>But then everyone is entitled to wrong opinions. Facts, on the other hand, are a different ballgame. Here’s a parting thought:</p>
<p><a href=“http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/[/url]”>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/</a></p>
<p>Uh hello Xiggi! Miami has done many of the problems!</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s question I think that the ACT is less “tricky” in their questions. SAT level 5’s usually have at least one misdirect in them. The ACT seems to be a somewhat cruder knock off. </p>
<p>The Science section seems silly.</p>
<p>The ACT and SAT are written by different companies, and have different historical roots and reflect different philosophies of assessment. The SAT is a deliberately tricky exam (and was even worse before the Analogies section was eliminated). The ACT is deliberately designed to more closely parallel subject matter taught in high school. </p>
<p>Because of the differences in their design, some students do perform better on one or the other, not because of some difference in native intelligence, but rather because those students just are more on the particular “wave-length” of that particular exam.</p>
<p>For lots of fun reading about how horrible both of the exams are, see [The</a> National Center for Fair & Open Testing | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org%5DThe”>http://www.fairtest.org)</p>
<p>As a practical matter, college-bound high schools students should consider taking one of each in junior year, since some do better on one compared to the other. If necessary, the student can retake the initially better one in senior year, with appropriate additional preparation.</p>
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<p>As everyone has agreed so far, how well a student performs on one of those tests is entirely individual in nature. Some students will do very well on both or none. And others will do better on one or the other. This also means that which one is straightforward or tricky is also … entirely subjective. Contrary to the above assessment, I have found the ACT to be tricky because of the confusion (perhaps deliberate) in the wording and the format of the test. On the other hand, the SAT is a proven animal with an extensive preliminary assessment of the questions BEFORE they are offered to the students. </p>
<p>What people consider tricky is merely the product of a test that rewards logic and reasoning. If is true that deviates from the typical HS curriculum stems from the simple fact that teaching logic and reasoning is often beyond the qualifications of our typical HS teachers who have not mastered their contents. Considering how often teachers are culled from the bottom of the barrel and graduated from “education” schools, that should not come as a surprise. </p>
<p>The reality is that the SAT is a test that is straightforward to anyone who has learned to use his or her thinking neurons and can do this beyond the straight “learn by rote” and “forget” the material type of teaching in our typical HS. People who are making a living teaching the SAT will be the first ones to admit how simple and non-tricky the SAT truly is, and this includes the English sections. The problem for most tutors is that the student who come to them are woefully unprepared as they never have been taught nor rewarded to … think critically.</p>
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<p>What have they added or changed that is tricky compared to a few decades ago? I found it straightforward back then. The only real difficulty in content was encountering an unknown vocabulary word in the Verbal section that was mostly a vocabulary test.</p>
<p>Based on years on following the SAT Forum --and other professional activities-- I have concluded that the definition of tricky refers to what it is not DIRECTLY and AUTOMATICALLY apparent. Students perform very well when they are asked to apply a formula, and especially over and over in a typical homework with 10-12 similar questions. They move forward in the curriculum through small batches of knowledge. The SAT, however, throws a bit of eveything and does not offer a “warning” by grouping the questions. The most difficult part for the student is to recognize what is tested and how to develop an approach that solves the problem in a 20 to 40 seconds. The other problem is to identify what is really asked. The lack of reading of the problem correctly is often mislabeled as the result of solving --incorrectly-- an easy problem. A last reality is that problems can be “SAT Solved” without ever “solving” the equations. SAT Solved means being able to pick the RIGHT answer without hesitation or having to “verify” your work. </p>
<p>My take is that tricky definition is often a proxy for simply being unprepared and unaware of the format of the SAT. </p>
<p>I recently went through all the released SAT that were offered in 2013, and while I encountered a couple of questions I would have found difficult at 17-18 years old, there were NONE that were tricky or impossible to solve. </p>
<p>My comments above refer to the math section. Discussing the reading and writing parts is a bit harder because not all test takers are English native speakers, and many students simply do not possess a sufficient mastery of English because of poor instruction and a lack of interest in reading and writing. While there are techniques that can and do overcome a truly lacking vocabulary, for some, the handicap of decades of neglect is simply too high an obstacle to overcome in a … few weeks of practice. This said, the SAT is hardly a vocabulary test.</p>
<p>Here is a link to a recent discussion of “trciky” problems. The problem I linked to is an example of a very hard problem on the SAT. If it is tricky remains in the eye of the beholder:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1570246-help-math-problem.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1570246-help-math-problem.html</a></p>
<p>By tricky I mean that the level 5 questions have wrong answers that are designed to lure in the uncareful. </p>
<p>I dont think the ACT does that but my familiarity with it isnt great. Do they have experiment questions that are fodder for latter tests?</p>
<p>IMO, the tricky questions are the ones where it is easy not to notice a “not” or an “except”. It’s been too long, but I know my older son missed math problems every time, not because he was bad at math (he was taking Linear Algebra), but because he misread questions, or left out a step. I like the ACT essays much more than the SAT essays. My kids did well enough on the SAT that they didn’t bother to see if they’d do better on the ACT, so I am not that familiar with it however.</p>
<p>The reality is that the majority of students, using the ACT-SAT conversion table do just about the same on each test. I agree with having a student take one of each early-ish in the junior year, then re-taking the one they felt most comfortable with a second sitting. I also think every student should prep before these tests (especially with the ACT, since timing is the critical factor.) There are varying theories about “who does best” on each test–e.g., girls tend to favor the ACT, “gamers” like the SAT etc. But really, it just depends which test resonates better with the individual kid. I’m also a big believer in having all testing DONE (including subject tests) in/by June of Junior year, so senior Fall is free of at least one pressure.</p>
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<p>Hear! Hear! </p>
<p>This is a message that should be told to all parents and students as they START high school. The unfortunate part is that parents do receive conflicting information from well-meaning but clueless GCs. The message that students should dabble with the PLAN in 10th grade, try the PSAT in October of the Junior to ascertain what needs to be addressed in the Spring is wrong on many accounts. To make it worse, even people who have learned to take the “advice” of the GC regarding curriculum by reading CC also get a dosis of this bad information. </p>
<p>The alternative of taking early PSAT (as early as 9th grade) and focus the ENTIRE SAT prep on getting ready in the summer before the junior year and presenting both the PSAT and SAT in October with repeats in November through May is much more powerful and, fwiw, much easier to accomplish. A long-term and slow preparation works much better than sprinting at the end when all kinds of demands surge in the form of APs and … applications. </p>
<p>But, as we know, GC do not like to have to address the schedules of HS students until the junior later and prefer to advocate a program that … is too late.</p>
<p>Another one with kids who scored relatively the same on both tests and who believes the tesrting should be wrapped up prior to the start of senior year.</p>