<p>In the other classes that he was slacking off on he has definitely improved and is back on track. Math is his enemy. And one of the first things we did was meet with the teacher who did exactly as you said and gave him very specific things to do to improve, all very doable. He had a multiple choice test and did fine on that. It’s the tests where he has to remember all the steps and show them all in detail that trip him up. And frankly, there’s only so much that I personally can do about that. I can make him take the time to do the homework without the interruptions of TV or computer but if he doesn’t follow through on quizzes and tests then so be it. He’ll live with the consequences. Perhaps working with the other students in the class will help him because he will see how they work through problems. By the way, the two girls who offered to help him are jrs. (he’s a soph in this honors math class) who up until this point have had straight 4.0’s - and they themselves have a 86 average in the class. So all in, we’ll take a C, aim for a C+ or B- and get the heck out of dodge!</p>
<p>Fredo:</p>
<p>Many students, both good and not so good at math, have trouble showing all the steps (my S did). But it’s very important. Your son could become part of a study group where students help one another by asking how they got to a particular solution, why do they think a particular algorithm applies, and so forth. If other students ask questions, he will be forced to explain his reasoning. Once he does that, he can write it down. This is essentially the method used in my S’s math enrichment program. The instructor poses a problem, and the students suggest approaches to solving that problem. Usually, the solution is a multi-step one. Since students have to convince the rest of the group that their method is correct, they have to explain their reasoning.
Study groups are very much encouraged in college, so your S will get an advance taste! They can also be more fun than one-on-one tutoring.</p>
<p>If they want you to explain your answer, or where you got it, you should just tell them to talk to the Jolly Green Giant.</p>
<p>Fredo, also seems like maybe the teacher is your enemy too???And his grades are fine. A C in a honors math class is a fine grade.But considering the lengths you have gone to with the teacher, I think the teacher should be more helpful too??My Son had one of those type teachers for honors Alg 2. Son had the entire Alg. 2 class during the summer, an advanced class but not honors, 6 weeks 4 hours a day. Our school district has a policy of not accepting summer courses not taken outside the school district so Son was fairly confident retaking the class would be a breeze. That teacher was such a stickler!, and frustrated and upset my son so much Son demoted himself the next year to regular physics.BIG ERROR WITH GREAT CONSEQUENCES.Sons math skills are excellent, it was just that stickler teacher that made the year bad.Then next Son comes along and flys through Alg1 and 2 with easy, nice teachers and Son 1 wonders why is life so unfair…Anyway he is sailing through AP Cal. Guess the message is, you are a good parent and are doing everything.Sometimes the teachers ambush us.I don’t think it’s your son. Do you?</p>
<p>In math, as in political science or history or any other discipline, getting to the correct answer is only half the issue. The other is explaining how one got to the correct answer. In math, it’s called proof. In non-science disciplines, it’s called evidence. In science, I assume it’s called experimental data.</p>
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<p>Knowing how to show steps is an acquired skill; Fredo’s son can acquire it with some practice. Some schools have drop-in math centers where volunteer tutors provide assistance. Otherwise, more advanced students can be asked for guidance; or students can study in group and try to explain to one another why they think their solution is correct. </p>
<p>By the way, this is not a skill that is useful for just that one class. In his college classes, my S still gets comments on his explanations. Sometimes, they are incomplete even though his solutions are correct; his grades reflect not only the correct solutions but also the completeness of his explanations.</p>
<p>Marite: * By the way, this is not a skill that is useful for just that one class. In his college classes, my S still gets comments on his explanations. Sometimes, they are incomplete even though his solutions are correct; his grades reflect not only the correct solutions but also the completeness of his explanations. *</p>
<p>Indeed, “showing your work” is a skill that is useful well beyond academia too. When you are making a budget presentation for your department or a writing up business plan for the bank officer approving your loan, it’s not enough to say we’re going to need funding of $X next year or we’re projecting profits of $Y next year. You also need to be able to show the assumptions you made and the computational process you used to justify the bottom line of your request or projection.</p>
<p>Homeschoolmom:</p>
<p>Absolutely. “Showing your work” means arguing your case, whether the issue is legal, financial, scientific, or historical., or whatever. You need to present the evidence or data in a convincing manner.</p>
<p>The free-response questions in AP-Calc are the equivalents of the Data-Based Question in the AP- US History. </p>
<p>A good rule I try to instill in my kids is: don’t write for the person who already knows your subject; write for an intelligent, well read-reader who is not a specialist in your subject. Give that reader enough information to follow your argument, and explain your line of reasoning. It’s the equivalent of " show, don’t just tell."</p>
<p>Marite, Great Rule! When D took earth science in middle school, her teacher was convinced she could be doing better work than she was doing. He asked me if I knew anything about earth science and I admitted I didn’t. He said that the best thing for D would be for me to read her papers; if I could understand what in the world she was talking about, they would be much better papers. His idea worked.</p>
<p>A good rule I try to instill in my kids is: don’t write for the person who already knows your subject; write for an intelligent, well read-reader who is not a specialist in your subject.</p>
<p>I agree–great rule.</p>
<p>The skill of learning to communicate to an intelligent lay audience is indeed valuable, and one too often neglected, unfortunately.</p>
<p>Distinguished scientists have sometimes learned this lesson the hard way–when they have to appear before a congressional committee to justify their appropriations requests.</p>
<p>And it’s also the case that explaining things to an intelligent lay audience is a great way to deepen one’s own uinderstanding of the subject. </p>
<p>That’s why some very senior professors say they continue to enjoy teaching introductory classes in their field. If they really work at communicating with their audience, it forces them to constantly see the assumptions and models and paradigms they take for granted in their own work through a different perspective–the eyes and ears of those who are new to the subject.</p>
<p>Many years ago, I was studying for my oral exams for the Ph.D. There was one section called something like “general analytic ability,” where my examiners could ask me pretty much any sort of weird off-the-wall thing they could come up with, to see how I would handle it. I remember hearing that the best way to prepare for that part of the exam was to teach the freshman course in the subject. I’d already taught more a more advanced course in the subject by that time (one designed for upperclass majors), so I was a little surprised to hear this recommendation…but I found it to be very true. They don’t call them “freshmen” for nothing–they really did bring a fresh perspective and throw off-the-wall questions at me and they really pushed my communications skills to the maximum. (And yes, the questions they came up with were harder than the questions asked by my oral examiners!)</p>
<p>These last few threads have been extremely valuable! I’ve often tried to share with my daughter, that learning math skills, even for those who “hate” math, are great exercises for the brain. An good athlete would never consider jumping into a game without proper training. Math serves to “train” the mind as well. She doesn’t buy it, of course. However, I believe the analogy that you need to “show your work” (no matter what the subject) will be well-received by her. I’ll give it a try. </p>
<p>She has struggled with math relatively recently (from about 8th grade on). I could never understand what happened. She seems to understand the material when taken step by step, but then completely blows exams. We finally (after 3 years) have come to the conclusion that she is just impatient. She wants to breeze through it, and skips steps that she thinks she understands. By not “showing her work” she makes dumb mistakes with assumptions. That is not a good lesson in ANY field!</p>
<p>Thanks once again everyone…although this is obviously a bit off-topic.</p>
<p>kjofkw: you have described to a T my son re: impatience, and rushing through work with dumb mistakes. </p>
<p>I really like the concrete suggestions: I think I’m going to have my son imagine that he do the problems as if he were teaching them to someone else. I may even suggest he explain them to me. That may help slow him down and crystalize the steps for him and get it to stick in his mind more. Thanks for all the suggestions!</p>
<p>I know it is too late for the OP, but I think an important point about learning Math that kids miss. “Drill and repetition” is still important, even in High School high lane maths. Just doing the homework may not be sufficient, (especially if it is wrong)… they need to be fluent in the concepts working forwards from the problem, not backwards from the answer and not just grasp concepts by their fingernails.</p>
<p>I think working through the text’s worked examples (without peeking) is a good test of fluency that is an easy parent check.</p>
<p>It appears Fredo’s S went to Purdue…may have graduated by now. Would be great if we knew the next chapters in this story…</p>
<p>Is there hope for those of us with similar sons? (Seem to be A LOT on CC!)</p>
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<p>Fredo- this is the story of my life.</p>
<p>It has been so helpful to read all of these postings and know that I am not the only one out there.</p>