Credits.
My kid was just “college confidential” normal with 10 or 11 classes and DE English.
He didn’t have 18 or cure cancer or start a few non profits or anything like that- like the current competition. Well he did start the aviation club - which also died a quick death when he graduated.
But just credits!!! Still took 4 years - but he had a friend who graduated in 3.5, but no minor.
It’s always tough. I loved my university, and I was very fortunate that my parents told me I could go wherever I wanted. I stepped on campus and thought it was so beautiful and I wanted to major in engineering, and it’s a very engineering school ( at least in 89-93) i never encouraged my kids to apply because it costs a lot and for what they wanted to study, not worth the money.
Now it’s been 3 of my own. One wanted to create a major in Tudor History, but ended in Communications with an excellent PR firm. One wanted to only be a sports broadcast journalist at ESPN and thought he could only go to one school with one major and if that didn’t work, he would die. Got in, got major, realized not for him and will be starting at Accenture with a fin/quant job. Third, no idea what to study (but Sports) , no career Objective (but Sports) and is going to taking summer classes because they have been working invited as a research assistant in Biochemistry, and now want to major in that. If anyone had told me last year that slacker kid of their own volition would be taking Calc 2, Physics 2, Biochemistry Engineereing and Chem 2, I would have rolled n the floor in hysterics.
You are very lucky to have so many paths open, but it could change any day.
As did David Bowie and Jane Fonda. One of my highschool friends roomed with Jane Fonda’s daughter. Completely random, as it was, back in the day
My daughter has narrowed her decision down to two schools now- it’s UPenn engineering versus Duke engineering and she is still having a hard time deciding. May 1st is just around the corner. This is agony. Welcome all your opinions!
It’s back to they are very different in environment - city vs. not really. Weather, Sports, etc. Duke taking a bus each day first year but the campus stunning. Penn is nice but not stunning (yes, that’s opinion) - what’s hers… I’d think that’d solve it one way or another.
There was a story a week or two ago - a student flipped a coin to decide two schools. They just didn’t know.
Then the coin landed on one school and the student said - I wish it landed on the other.
They did know - they just didn’t realize they knew.
Perhaps that’s yours as well?
I’d get if these are two like schools (in environment) but they’re not.
Has she been to both?
The coin toss is a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion. I’m going to suggest it to her if she hasn’t decided by this Friday.
She has been to both campuses and yes the Duke campus is gorgeous and that’s certainly a plus and location wise she definitely prefers Duke over Penn. For Penn she would have the opportunity to pursue engineering and also take a few classes in Wharton which she would like to do since she’s thinking of some sort of finance minor.
Although she likes the location and what Duke has to offer, she also is weighing in the fact that Penn is an Ivy League school. She goes back and forth all the time.
Both are strong for engineering. Which type of engineering - in most cases, the where doesn’t matter.
For business, Duke can’t compete - it’s got a certificate program but it sounds very interdisciplinary with social sciences.
Maybe that is the deal breaker?
Can she do a finance minor at Wharton though? Unless I’m reading wrong this says stats/data science only.
The minor would not be from Wharton but she can take many classes at Wharton which she is very keen to do and that’s one of the attractions for Penn (even though she loves the campus at Duke 10 times better than Penn).
I think she is asking questions in a Penn thread, and I would just emphasize one point.
The fact Penn is in the Ivy League sports conference should have no weight whatsoever in her decision. That was just an geographic proximity thing. Schools like Chicago, Stanford, and so on were not somehow less distinguished than Cornell, say, they were just too far away. Same deal with Penn (close enough) versus Duke (too far).
And to be blunt, this is underselling Penn! Penn isn’t a great institution because it plays football with Harvard and Yale. Penn is a great institution because it is a fantastic global research university, with many top departments and schools. It has a really broad range of undergrad programs with all sorts of interdisciplinary connections, offers all sorts of great non-academic programs and activities, and has a location right in the center of a major city.
So choosing Penn for those reasons would make a lot of sense. Choosing it because it is in a certain sports conference is really missing its actual value, in my view.
Gotcha - so that and Ivy are what are doing it. I saw you said some type of finance minor hence I thought she was looking to do one at Wharton.
Maybe which ever she doesn’t choose she’ll go back for an MBA 
Yeah good point. She does want to do a MBA at some point in the future. And she was asking whether having an undergrad degree from Penn would make it more likely for her to get into a MBA program at Penn.
I agree. Thanks for your insight and opinion.
Given what you said- Do you think the network at Penn is much larger than the network at Duke? I’m wondering how that might be of benefit too.
She won’t be able to take many classes in Wharton. My S23 is studying engineering at Penn and there is little room in his schedule for classes outside of SEAS. The engineering requirements are robust. However, my D19, who was enrolled in the College, was able to complete the statistics minor from Wharton.
I have a kid at each! Penn and Duke are both extraordinary and your kid will have success from either. Penn and Duke both encourage interdisciplinary education whether that is taking Econ classes in addition to an engineering major(doable at both), or pursuing interdisciplinary research.
Both schools have tons of funding for undergraduate pursuits, even summer funding though that is competitive.
Both have work hard/play hard cultures but honestly the engineers at both have more work than play, with 4.5-5 courses per semester needed at both for Engineering (whereas arts& sciences at both is 4-4.5 per semester for a major).
Both report collaboration in classes and psets, but there is an intellectually intense atmosphere prevalent in both student populations, which makes for interesting discussions in and out of class.
Only one of mine is an Engineering student, and her final two were Duke and Penn. She was accepted to one of the Engineering dual degree programs which provides 2 yrs of guaranteed research and generous summer stipends plus a lot of customized advising. She applied to Engineering alone as the backup if she had not gotten into the dual, and that would have made the decision a little harder. However she loved the Penn campus, does not care tons about big sports, and it provided something different (ie not where humanities sister is and where her parents went). She loves it. My other one loves Duke and we know very satisfied Engineering students at Duke.
Best of luck with the decision!
I wish I could compare the network of alums. i know for certain the Duke Alum network is very involved with helping new alumni in every field as well as being a resource to current undergrads. From parent network at Penn they tout the alum connections highly, but I am not an alum there so I cannot say first hand.
I think the world is very different today - and I think the networks, while it’s great to have, they are not a driver. Nor are the career centers for kids acquiring jobs - although they prep them, etc.
So the top choice is Cornell - and they happen to have the best career dashboard - the reason being they show how jobs were found.
I don’t know what type of engineering there is interest in - so I chose all 16 that have engineering the title. Some majors don’t have engineering in them.
So my kid did MechE at a not highly ranked flagship - had 20 interviews and 5 offers by xmas - all from indeed because he didn’t like who came on campus to the career fairs.
How are Cornell engineering grads finding jobs - the same way.
54 on linkedin, indeed, company websites and 20 on Handshake - and those go to many schools.
10 on campus and 7 via alumni so not non-existent but also not the primary.
As long as the economy is good, there’s not going to be an issue from either of these two powerhouses - but I think all these “extras” are splitting hairs - network, career opportunities, etc. There’s likely not measurably better at either.
Two different people will choose each of these schools and they’re both right!!!
I do tend to think I wouldn’t focus on business. WIth Wharton’s popularity, you don’t know if you can even get in a class - a finance class at that - and perhaps (I don’t know) there’s a chance to take one at UNC if she really wants to.
You might confirm you can take Wharton classes - not just the allowability but the actual ability as they might be over popular.
Engineering is a rigorous and well defined major so yes, electives are minimal - and that’s at schools where you go in with lots of APs which likely isn’t happening here.
Your daughter really can’t go wrong as you know.
Well hopefully one day she wakes up with a thought - I’m going to ______ and it’s just done!!!
My kid was lucky enough to have a similar choice (Brown, Duke, Harvard). It felt daunting, but In hindsight forced my kid to be highly introspective about what they wanted both during their college experience and what post college ambitions they wanted to pursue.
It was hardly an exact science. Harvard felt too IB oriented, Duke not strong enough in entrepreneurship and Brown the perfect flexibility of curriculum and dedicated start up resources. He chose Brown after visiting all schools twice (we were lucky to be able to do that). In most cases it was a feeling not fact based but different schools did have different resources. Ultimately it was subtle differences and reasons to say no as there were so many reasons to say yes to any of these schools.
In hindsight any of these schools would likely have produced similar outcomes and or experiences but he benefited from the adult responsibility of having to make a meaningful and consequential decision. Once done he never looked back from what we could tell so similarly I hope your “pain” will soon pass.
I will also highlight just how important alumni network is (all three schools are great). At least for my kid who has sourced multiple 7 figures of funding for his startup largely through alum and contacts of alum and or the “Ivy Network”. Most of his friends found jobs by connecting with former alum via Linkedin and networking. Linkedin means accessing alumni networks for kids at elite schools.
Even when kids don’t access the initial opportunity directly through alumni they are able to leverage alumni contacts into insights and opportunities. As someone whose kid has first hand experience with the schools you are comparing, I would be careful not to under appreciate the value of alumni network.
So one thing I like to keep in mind is that if a college graduates more people each year, that will mean more alums, but it will also mean more graduates each year trying to work alumni networks to their advantage. This helps explain why, say, small LACs can do so well in per capita placement studies.
So if there was a variable you would want to measure, I don’t think it would be size of the alumni network, it would be the average loyalty/helpfulness of the alums. And I don’t have any reason to believe Penn or Duke alums outscore the other by such a measure.
The advice we followed a few years ago when my son was torn between two options was to have two days, one devoted to each school, the week before commit date.
On Day 1, he woke up and put on that school’s shirt, and tried to act and feel like he was going there. I put little signs around the house with pictures of the mascot as well as exciting facts, rankings, other things to get excited about going there. I had a banner and put up any other stickers, signs, pictures or other things we’d gotten. I made pancakes in the shape of the college initials, and whatever other things I could to make him feel like he’d made his decision. The next day I did the same for the other school.
He said one of those just felt right, and the other felt wrong, and he knew he had his decision.