<p>At private high schools where tuition is around 30,000/yr. It’s not unreasonable for those GCs not to be concerned with parents ability to pay. Those GCs focus is more on getting kids into top tier schools.</p>
<p>Our school GCs told the junior class parents to not apply for any aid next year, “it would be your hook.”</p>
<p>A typical masters in school counseling may only offer one course in college counseling. Some GCs will take an online certificate program such as the one offered by UCLA to broaden their knowledge.</p>
<p>Tuition at my kids’ school isn’t 30k on paper, but when all is said and done, I imagine it’s kind of close. However, while they may not talk about it much, there is a financial aid night to explain the process and in the forms and surveys you (parents and kids) fill out before senior year, there is the question asked about is cost a factor. I know of plenty of kids who were directed to less expensive schools or schools that offered merit aid. The advice there was the early bird gets that particular worm (so apply ED).</p>
<p>London – people can and be expected to learn other than through classees. There are books, etc on the subject.</p>
<p>Modadun – our kids are advised DO NOT APPLY ED if you need finaid – or at least think long and hard about it.</p>
<p>I haven’t read all the posts in this thread, so apologies if this is redundant. I agree that there seems to be an air of entitlement with some applicants. In reality, no one “owes” them anything. While everyone hopes for a great merit or need-based package, they need to be hopeful for the best, but prepared for the worst. We see the “how do I get the best aid at the best school so I don’t need to pay much of anything to send my kid to college” threads ad nauseum, and all too often it seems like the are looking for the easy way out. There is no easy street on the college pursuit journey. I don’t get why so many people expect the school to hand them free money. My older s had a friend who left no stone unturned with outside scholarships and paid her way through 4 years of a top 20 private school with all the all the scholarships she won. Yes it took a lot of work for her to research the scholarships, apply to them, etc. I have no idea how many she won, or how big the biggest one was (she had, according to my s, a lot of small scholarships in the $500 range, but they add up) and I am gathering that many were renewable. </p>
<p>And if someone wants to go to a certain school, are there other options? ROTC scholarship? Are there other work-study opportunities? My s was an SAT tutor throughout his 4 yrs of college. It paid pretty well, but yes, it took time and energy. This is called “work”. Sure it would be great if we could all say “but precious Sally has to focus all her time on her studies. We dont want her to have to take a job on top of being a full-time student. It will take time away from her studies”. Well, if Sally wants to go to a specific school, it might take extra work to do so. </p>
<pre><code>Apologies if the next statement sounds less than diplomatic, but I dont know how to word it delicately. The student in the newspaper article had a hispanic sounding last name. There are LOTS and LOTS of private scholarships for different minority groups. The student should APPLY for them.
</code></pre>
<p>Most top students have a strong work ethic, but seem to have blinders on when it comes to finding ways to finance one’s education. Yes, students have to work hard to get accepted into the schools of their choice, but they <em>also</em> have to work hard to find the way to pay for it. </p>
<p>And garland, I hope your s is doing well. I agree with your earlier statement-- this is not the cc we joined many moons ago…</p>
<p>kayf - I agree, they should be expected to, but do most of them? I took one of the courses (part of the online certificate) at UCLA and knew more than most of the GCs in my class about college counseling. Some of CC are fortunate to have gifted GCs who know what they’re doing and also have small student to GC ratios. My family was not so fortunate (ratio is probably 300:1) and I became the “GC”. My D did not see the GC except to turn in transcript requests.</p>
<p>The ones at my Ds school do. There is about a 75 student to GC ratio, and each GC has kids in 3 grades. My Ds GC has been with my D every step of they way, suggesting clases, tutors, whether to retake tests, college selections. These GCs are great – they would never miss a date, they know and care about the kds who are going to HYP and the kids who arent. They know which kids need finaid, and which kids dont (and need a hook). Its an afflueant area, but they know who went through a divorce and might not be able to qualify for aid, but nto be able to pay. They know to make sure your kid has a safety and a financial safety they can learn to love.</p>
<p>Colleges, and the political system, also put “spin” on things. Remember during the Republican primaries when Mitt Romney touted that the top students in Massachusetts got “free tuition” to the University of Massachusetts system. And that’s true. What he didn’t say, though, is that “tuition” at UMass Amherst (the flagship) is less than 1/4 of the costs of attendance. Most of the costs are in “fees” which are not covered by the scholarships and people are often shocked to see how much they are. (As an aside, UMass’s website doesn’t even list tuition separately - it’s “tuition & fees”. And the Mass legislature has never met a fee it didn’t like.)</p>
<p>But people who believe the hype think they’ll get a big break at UMass. Surprise!</p>
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<p>I think that unrealistic expectation develops during K-12 education. School for most pupils is “free,” that is subsidized by everyone’s taxes, and some students expect that it is natural for higher education to also be “free” without any further prerequisites than completing high school. I have a different set of expectations.</p>
<p>Before we started on our children’s college journeys, we heard so many myths, incorrect predicitions assurances, tall tales, etc about scholarships. Our oldest was a national athlete and the story we would hear was that he was assured of a free ride as long as his grades and test scores were within range. </p>
<p>When we joined the arena, it was a altogether different scenario. Actually the tales were true. He could get a full ride scholarship at many schools. THe sport expanded the field somewhat and upped his chances, but the truth of the matter was that with his academic stats, he could get a free college education at a number of schools, using Momfromtexas criteria. But when you start looking at “name” colleges, it’s a whole different story. He did not get one dime in scholarship offers from any schools with names I recognized. He probably got some preferential treatment from admissions, and was accepted when he may have been waitlisted or waitlisted where he might have been denied without the sports hook, but there was no money in the offerings.</p>
<p>The coach has a daughter his age who went to a flagship school. They did give her a partial scholarship, and she was world class in her sport. Again, she could have gone to lesser known colleges and gotten a full ride, but when it came down to to the big names, the money was sparse. Her grades and test scores were lower than my son’s but her athletic prowess a level higher. She was not even considered by the ivy level schools that did consider my son. </p>
<p>As I dug a little deeper in some of the stories I heard, some were downright lies, most were misrepresentations. Families that got a $5000 financial aid package including loans would call it simply a scholarship and leave it hanging how much it was. Schools that did not and could not give athletic scholarships were giving out money according to word of mouth. Schools that did not give merit money were supposedly giving it out. So if you don’t check out the stories or believe everything you hear or read, you could end up having a completely wrong idea of how your child is going to make out in this system.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse very true about having having to check out the story and go a little deeper. Especially if it is stories from kids. Exaggeration to boost the ego and standing are not unheard of. And I particularly dislike the stat the schools post that X% of students get assistance and the average average assistance is $$$. When we saw packages that were mostly loans I had to laugh. The schools perpetuate the myths, too.</p>
<p>I never really listened to the kids stories. It was the parents that led us astray. I like the stats that schools post, but they should really separate loan and workstudy money from out right grants, and should separate the merit money from the need funds if they are going to be helpful. Even then, you really need to know who is getting the bulk of the funds. It could be that a division of the school is well endowed with scholarships that bring up those numbers, but doesn’t help your kid if he does not fall in that category. It’s tough getting the information most relevant to your particular situation which is really all that counts.</p>
<p>At both of my S’s HSs, the GC told parents they should think about what they can afford. Neither mentioned the online EFC calculators. Noone mentioned FAFSA vs. PROFILE methodology. I was asked to give the parent’s perspective on college applications at one of their schools last year, and all I talked about was the money – websites for EFC cacluators, warning that EFC is a lot more than YOU think is affordable, the importance of considering what your family can pay for vs. where your S/D would like to attend, etc. Parents came up to me afterwards having never been told anything about what I was saying. This was a group of highly educated parents with brilliant kids, in the crunch zone income-wise in a high-COL area, and not wealthy enough to spend $$ on private counselors. They were either not familiar with the US college system or were still thinking about 1970s-80s tuition vs. a student’s ability to make a significant dent in that bill.</p>
<p>This year’s GC told parents that if “you can’t afford an Ivy League school, you should tell your kids that now,” completely ignoring that for some families at this school, FA for HPY is indeed the golden lottery ticket. Never mentioned the Common App, either.</p>
<p>My feeling is that one must be an educated consumer when it comes to college selection/applications/financing. The rules of the game are changing too fast to stand on the sideline and cross one fingers that it will all work out.</p>
<p>CardinalFang - yes we are seriously thinking about community college for our ADHD son. It may prove to be the best option for him, and we are fine with that (after a bit of sadness, I must admit). His football coach thinks he might even be able to play football for one of the local jcs. The drawback is that he will miss out on that “college experience” which I know he would really enjoy, and, selfishly, we were looking forward to being empty nesters :).</p>
<p>KayF’s speculation about what <em>whole system failing</em> might mean struck a chord with me. It may not be what the family in the original post was referring to, but the combination of investments tanking, home equity shrinking and sticker shock (along with a feeling of insecurity even among those who still have jobs) are no doubt causing a lot of pain and changes of plan.</p>
<p>tokenadult,
I never thought about that-- They get public education “free” in primary/secondary school, so they might expect to also get a “free” education from a state university for college. But in all honesty, I’ve never heard of anyone confusing those two principals, and the people we are talking about here seem to be well informed about the merit and need-based money tree. They’d probably have to be living under a rock to be thinking that college is “free” in-state. But I get what you are saying. They dont really think that way, they just want it to be that way. More entitlements…</p>
<p>Lots of articles on this now. I wonder what the yields will be in the state universities and if they really considered the current economic climate when they made their offers.
[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/02/AR2009050202137.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/02/AR2009050202137.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]
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<p>I teach afterschool Hebrew. Now it’s Spring and my 7th and 8th graders have terrible attendance because of sports. Their parents actually believe they will get “sports scholarships” for college. I maintain their time would be equally well-spent learning to pray for miracles.</p>
<p>P3T: LOL! I happen to agree with you.</p>
<p>LOL p3t!!!</p>
<p>Reminds me of a plaque my s gave a neighbor (who is a teacher). It read “as long as teachers give grades there will be prayer in school” or something like that. </p>
<p>And between you and me, that list of jewish athletes is not too terribly long. I do believe I saw a coffee table book about it once at a friends house. It (the book) wasn’t too big…</p>