<p>True, Captain, who knows if the mother said it quite that way. Our little local paper misquotes people all the time. </p>
<p>At any rate, lots of good advice, regarding other avenues to pursue has been given here, esp. for Californians. I guess that’s part of it, it seems particularly melodramatic for a CA resident to say something like that, when the system here, even though it is not what it used to be, was designed to offer a route for everyone to get a degree, and as pointed out, using the CC’s for a couple of years is one way of cutting costs on the way to getting a degree from a four year school without getting scholarships. </p>
<p>I guess Marite is saying that in a lot of other states, the options are far more limited. That is unfortunate, IMO.</p>
<p>What’s going on here? Do we really have speech nazi here? Why do people keep on asking if they are allowed to say something? I never noticed before. Was there a new memo I missed?</p>
<p>“While I agree that the statement, “The whole system failed us” is melodramatic, I don’t think it’s right to make assumptions when we most likely don’t have the complete story.”</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more. One should never make assumptions without having the complete story.</p>
<p>I don’t know what about my post set you off. I am merely commenting on the difficulties faced by B/B+ students who don’t have a lot of opportunities for significant scholarship but whose parents’ income make them ineligible for financial aid. Not every student resides in a state where there is a community college within shouting distance–or even driving distance. NYC is not the US. </p>
<p>As for moving or changing your legislature if you don’t happen to like your state’s priorities, try telling that to the folks in Michigan. U Mich tuition, room and board for in-state students is $22k. The state’s median household income is $44k. The economy is tanking, the unemployment rate is 13.4%. People cannot move if they cannot sell their house. That’s the reality I was thinking about. But perhaps, I ought to only think of me and mine and stop worrying about other people. I don’t have a stake in this issue. My youngest is off to grad school with a nice fellowship.</p>
<p>Regarding the CSU and UC systems - as financial situations grow more tenuous and private/out of state schools are taken off the table, the competition to get into these relatively affordable schools becomes more and more fierce. When you have 66,000 students applying to CSULong Beach for 4000 spots, a school that just a few years ago was a cinch to get into, it eliminates the possibility of financial aid for any but the highest grades/lowest income students. It is very scary for me, with a son barely hanging on to a 2.9 gpa, to think that there may be no place for him in our state’s universities. And here’s the saddest part - we don’t need any financial aid…in fact I’m glad to pay full tuition and just get him into college (he’s a kid with ADHD but very bright…a whole other story). </p>
<p>Returning to the initial post, I am disturbed by those who feel entitled to a private education, for any reason. I would have liked to have sent my kids to private high school, but we couldn’t have afforded that and college also, so we sent them to public school, and it has been, for the most part, just fine. My D is in a private university, and we are paying full tuition, but I would not have considered letting her apply to a private school if it wasn’t financially possible for us. Higher education is worthwhile whether public or private…and I don’t believe that there are only 50 schools in this country that are worth going to, which is what many on CC seem to think.</p>
<p>elizabethh, have you thought of community college and then transfer for your son? The smaller classes might be better for an ADHD kid, and once he got the hang of college he’d be ready for a bigger school. Just a thought.</p>
<p>What does it cost to attend Michigan State? What about Central Michigan University?</p>
<p>Looks to me like the B student sin Michigan has a similar array of choices as the B student in California… though I realize that the economy & job situation may presently be worse in Michigan.</p>
<p>I think this family is clear about what they mean:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As an upper middle class CA family I’m assuming they have some home equity and maybe some other assets. Any calculator should have told them they had little chance for need based aid at most schools. And research would have showed that they would have had to go down from USC to count on merit aid.</p>
<p>This is just another case of people believing in the financial aid fairy and a family who didn’t or couldn’t do the research not helped by the overworked high school counselors. There needs to be a huge banner explaining aid at every high school entrance.</p>
<p>You have to be really good to get any of the big merit scholarships from USC (quarter, half, full tuition). The only exception is that NMF guarantees half-tuition scholarship from USC.</p>
<p>Otherwise, most half and full tuition scholarships end up in the hands of people who probably also have been accepted to the likes of Stanford, MIT, Princeton, etc.</p>
<p>Merit aid is to benefit the university, not the students. USC is making extremely ambitious efforts to make the freshmen class have the caliber of top schools like Stanford. Merit aid is part of this plan.</p>
<p>And USC gives a ridiculous amount of need-based aid. Our smaller endowment can’t give ridiculously extraordinary aid like Stanford does, but it is relatively very good.</p>
<p>hmom5 – i wouldnt assume a family in California has home equity. Perhaps this could be part of what the woman in the news meant when she said the system has failed her. Bought or mortgaged house at top of market, now no equity; savings/401K tanked.</p>
<p>OK, so assume no equity. They make $140K. That alone would put them out of the running for need based aid at most schools. They thought the government might give them grants?</p>
<p>I had this conversation the other day. I was asked if the CSUs, all in about $18K/year, would give good aid to a family making $150K. What are people thinking?</p>
<p>I am not saying these people should get aid – I am just saying how the parents could feel frustrated at “the system” which told people buy a house, put money in 401K in stock, have kid do ECs. Maybe I just feel bad for some people because the system is more complicated than it was for our parents.</p>
<p>I think the “system” that is frustrating this family is the one that they thought would give their bright, well-rounded kid who worked hard in high school lots of merit aid to go to an expensive college. </p>
<p>What they found was a system wherein the “best colleges” only give need-based aid and the great colleges that give merit aid have the bar set VERY, VERY high for their most comprehensive scholarships.</p>
<p>I feel sorry for all the kids whose parents and counselors didn’t help them figure out financial aid before they applied. It’s hard to imagine with aid calculators being everywhere from the college’s websites to the College Board website and in popular books in every bookstore. That families don’t know the government doesn’t give grants to families making $140K is hard to grasp. Why would it, these are high wage earners.</p>
<p>I’m thinking the first thing every counselor needs to do is tell the kids to run the numbers.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to think about our parents. Mine didn’t understand aid either, but their assumption was just the opposite–that we couldn’t possibly afford expensive schools.</p>
<p>The cost of attendance at Central Michigan U is $18K+. ACT: 26; faculty/student ratio: 26/1; admission rate 73%. For Michigan State, COA is ~$18K. ACT:27; faculty/student ratio:18/1; admission rate 74%. These figures are in fact the same as for UMich (the $22k I quoted included books and personal expenses, which are not factored in the COA for CMU or MSU). So I do not believe that “the B student in MI has a similar array of choices as the B student in CA.”</p>
<p>While these universities may be affordable for middle-income families, I wanted to question Blossom’s assertion that if one does not like one’s state’s spending priorities, there’s an easy remedy in the electoral system. No matter who’s in charge, the economic realities will remain the same and for MI, they will be particularly challenging. Another issue is that most states do not have the same large array of colleges and universities as CA.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve been wondering why the student in question did not receive a half-tuition NMF scholarship since she is described as high-achieving.</p>
<p>hmom5, I agree with you – even in my relatively affluant area, the GCs constantly harp on money – they tell kids, your parents are other money worries, you may want professional school (which unlike grad school, is unlikely to provide finaid). I have questioned whether the GCs in the more working class areas are likely to do this, or are they more likely to want an impressive list of college acceptances.</p>
<p>A little OT, but do you think that high school GC’s and other advisers should spend more time on the financial side of this whole process? </p>
<p>As the decision date passed, I had so many kids who had gotten into TOP schools end up choosing the in-state flagship with 100% tuition scholarship. Especially those who are looking to go to med school later. It was such a tough decision. There really ISN’T much aid out there for folks who are what I think of as middle-class- two working parents, family income 100,000-150,000 or so. But those families, especially with 2 or more kids, are hard-pressed to come up with 30-50K per year for undergrad.</p>
<p>I’m NOT saying this isn’t fair, or that someone should pony up for them. These kids are all going to college. But they get gobsmacked, year after year, when after all their effort to get accepted to these schools they discover the harsh financial realities. They aren’t all on CC reading Curmudgeon’s great posts. It’s just hard to watch, and I wish the GC who helps with the applications also felt empowered to really talk money early in the process.</p>
<p>(note: 4 years ago with son #1 we were among them. “lucky” for us he was waitlisted at his dream school, U Chicago, because it would have killed us to say no to that school. He was accepted to all the other expensive out of state schools. We thought he’d get merit aid. We were wrong. He ended up in state, and is graduating soon. His younger brothers applied in-state, found great fits and are very happy)</p>
<p>Several years ago, the NYT ran a series of articles about GCs. The articles featured a GC from a small private school, one from a suburban public school and one from an inner-city public school. The private school GC had a case load of 30 or so students and had little grasp of financial aid issues. The inner-city GC’s expertise lay in financial aid but he had little or no knowledge of selective private schools. He had a case-load of 500. </p>
<p>Depending on which school a student attends, that student will have a GC who makes unwarranted assumptions about students’ financial resources and is knowledgeable about some but not all aspects of college application and admission.</p>