"The Whole System Failed Us"

psych_2 · May 2, 2009, 10:15am

marite,

Good point. I’ll amend that to “school of their choice”–for example, there’s a nonselective out of state public I would have loved to apply to and potentially go to, but I didn’t apply because they offer no merit aid to out of state students. I thought and still think my university is a great fit for me, but it’d be foolish to say money didn’t influence my decision heavily.

Yes! I get so tired of hearing people say that so-and-so got a “full ride” to Harvard!

oldfort,

Aww, thanks!

poetgrl · May 2, 2009, 10:37am

Well, you’d have been foolish not to allow money to influence your decision heavily! Of course, you seem anything but foolish.

Bay · May 2, 2009, 11:40am

While I agree that the family in the OP was ridiculously naive to think they would not have to pay USC’s tuition, I also think some people are ridiculously naive to think that it would have been easy for this family to save $200K+ for their D’s college education.

Also, unlike some of the posters on CC, most parents do not have degrees from elite universities, so they are not necessarily in a position to make up for a crummy school district with the education they can provide for their kids at home.

brassring · May 2, 2009, 11:43am

In case anyone is interested in a slightly different case of a Hollywood High School graduate’s struggles to find scholarships to attend Berkeley when the family’s income has made him ineligible for either grants and he did not win Regents, here is the link:
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/education/01college.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/education/01college.html</a>

ellemenope · May 2, 2009, 11:46am

I would insert the following: “we are really giving them options AND EXPERIENCES…”

We’ve spent gobs of money on music lessons, band fees, orchestra fees, concert tickets, etc. on our kids. It’s been pretty plain that neither kid will become a professional musician, so one could argue that the money has been “wasted.” But music has brought and will continue to bring a wonderful quality to their lives.

brassring · May 2, 2009, 11:51am

The real issue for the Family in OP’s story is that they placed all their bets on USC. The only other school mentioned is Cal State Long Beach.

From this I infer that they either applied to UCLA and got rejected or worse they didn’t apply.

There is no mention of other UCs like UCSD or UCSB. Those schools are great to good schools in their own right at HALF the COA at USC. Had the OP’s kid had won a Presidential Scholarship at USC (half-tuition), her cost would be higher than the UCs. So, not only did this Family make gallant assumptions about USC giving their kid a scholarship, they did not select schools in California wisely.

littlegreenmom · May 2, 2009, 12:10pm

A very simple tool that can often be employed to search out merit scholarships is a google search.

Google - “Guaranteed Merit Scholarships” + (the state of your choice)

Sometimes there is a master list of all the merit scholarships based on a gpa. Or test scores. It can be a good starting point when you are searching financial safety schools.

Another thing, I cannot emphasize enough is that Financial Aid is not all FREE. When I hear parents say “my kid didn’t get any aid”, then they don’t understand what aid is. It isn’t all FREE.

marite · May 2, 2009, 12:39pm

I don’t think I’m naive to think that this family could have saved all of $200k for college. Heck, we did not!
But I think that with SOME savings and borrowing and judicious search for affordable schools and scholarships, a high achieving student from a family at that income level ought to be able to attend a very decent school. As Brassring stated, it looks like the family in the article placed all its bets on USC with Cal State Long Beach as a fall back. I wonder if the parents even knew what their likely EFC would be.

CountingDown · May 2, 2009, 1:22pm

Marite said:

That has been precisely our approach. I went back to work from medical leave so we could reduce our borrowing, and it looks like we’ll be able to get away with loans for just the two years we have two kids in college. Between that and the sweat equity the guys have (or with S2, will have) in their education, it opened up some excellent schools.

ellemenope · May 2, 2009, 1:46pm

If the system failed this family at all, it is that it didn’t get across the above to them. But families that often have a certain school or bunch of schools in mind often don’t want to hear the above message of planning for an academic and financial safety.

littlegreenmom · May 2, 2009, 2:02pm

I don’t think most students parents even grasp what a “financial” safety school is. Or really how much college even costs.

I worked my way through my first two years of college on my own without taking out a loan. I could afford it. It was doable on summer income and part time work during school.

Not so much anymore. Even the lowest cost options are still going to expect some financial contribution. Clearly, it will depend on a variety of factors - commuting/living on campus/off campus, community college, public or private, scholarships or grants, subsidized or unsubsidized loans. There are so many variables that we need to get the family involved from 9th grade. See what it costs. Go look on the websites. Do the math. See what kinds of grades it will take to qualify for those merit scholarships. See which schools offer merit scholarships, to begin with. See if you qualify for need help. If not, crunch the numbers of all the types of schools and identify how much you might have to pay back in loans each month for parents and students.

We spend more time researching automobiles when we go to buy them, then we do colleges. Sending the kid to college is such an EMOTIONAL decision, that we often suspend reality and think it will all just work out. It often doesn’t.

Planning is key - but also having a backup plan. What will happen if…there is no scholarship? If you will have to pay with loans? What is your credit like? Will you expect the kid to help you pay…if so, how much? What is the student’s obligation, grade-wise to maintain a scholarship? Will the student have to work? What about travel - how much will it cost to send a kid to a college far away? What kind of lifestyle will the student have?

Two years ago, when I started advising students, I told them to apply to between 6-8 schools. Now, I have changed that recommendation to 8-12. Only because the mileage varies so much, and often, these students will NEED to compare aid offers. It will cost more up front, but may be worth it in the long haul when making a final decision.

And also - to truly spread out that college application list. Not all the top favorite schools, but mix it up. Research schools. Read Fiske and the other college review guides. Don’t get caught up in the rankings, only. Consider half public and half private options, hopefully with at least one school out of state.

Cardinal_Fang · May 2, 2009, 2:16pm

Even if the counselors at the this top magnet school somehow didn’t instruct the family on the realities of college admission and college finances, which I doubt, the school is filled with other high achievers applying to college, plenty of them with savvy parents. This family was surrounded by people who know everything there is to know about applying to colleges. They didn’t take advantage of this wealth of information. I picture them ignoring advice from school and friends. And now they’re whining.

I can feel sorry for a promising high-achieving student in a bad school, a student whose parents didn’t go to college and whose classmates aren’t college-bound either. That kid can get bad advice and miss out on opportunities. But an upper-middle-class family with kids in a top public high school? Spare me, and shut up with the whining.

mstee · May 2, 2009, 2:39pm

Too bad this family didn’t know or didn’t hear (chose NOT to hear?) what everyone on CC who has been here for awhile has heard many times:

LOVE THY SAFETY, LOVE THY SAFETY, LOVE THY SAFETY etc . . .

The whole system failed me, is of course, esp. in CA, a gross exaggeration. Entitlement mindset. I have sort of skimmed this thread, but there is another option here that would cut the cost of a USC degree in half, maybe someone mentioned it – Go to one of our excellent community colleges for two years, work hard, and transfer to USC (or any number of private/and or public schools).

mstee · May 2, 2009, 2:50pm

Perhaps part of the problem for this family is that for some reason they are restricting their choices to the LA area? Just a thought.

Cardinal_Fang · May 2, 2009, 3:21pm

They might be, mstee, but as you point out and as has already been discussed here, there are several fine community colleges in the LA area. I think there’s even one that has dorms.

mstee · May 2, 2009, 4:01pm

True, CF, and as I say, I didn’t scour this whole thread before spouting off. I was thinking, (and I’m sure it probably was said earlier), that had the geographical limitations not been there, this person might have had some other options as to private schools/scholarships. System works better if you cast a wider net . . .

Cardinal_Fang · May 2, 2009, 5:23pm

Even now, after the less-than-desirable admissions results, this family isn’t taking responsibility for their own choices. The system provided many fine opportunities for the student, but the family didn’t bother to investigate.

marite · May 2, 2009, 6:16pm

I believe that the system is failing the solid B/B+ student from a middle-class family. Chances of merit aid are slim, and the family may qualify for little financial aid. Perhaps in CA, such students can go to CSUs, or CCs, but what about other states?

CaptainKurtz · May 2, 2009, 9:42pm

Why are we assuming what the parents in the article mean? I read the article, and I don’t see anything that says, “I’m looking for a free education for my kid.” Do we even know if they went to college? From what I know about the school, many of the students’ parents are immigrants and haven’t gone to college themselves, so I don’t think that they’re exactly qualified to give other parents advice about financial aid.

While I agree that the statement, “The whole system failed us” is melodramatic, I don’t think it’s right to make assumptions when we most likely don’t have the complete story.

blossom · May 2, 2009, 9:50pm

Marite, in NY gobs of those kids go to Brooklyn, Queens college, Baruch, etc. All offer four year degrees; there is virtually nowhere in the 5 boroughs that you cannot commute to one of the City Colleges via public transportation and live at home.

Why is this systemic failure? Every state (and of course its voters) gets to determine how much of a priority college and university is via its funding of its university system. You don’t like what your state legislature had done to your state U program?- then work to change it or move.

The folks in my neighborhood who like to kvetch about college costs are the ones who systematically refuse to look at any option that would involve a lifestyle change, a sacrifice of any kind, or deferred consumption.

They know two things- junior deserves “an athletic scholarship” as payback for all the years they spent driving to games and tryouts and meeting private coaches, and travel league and what not. No consideration given to who would want to pay for this kid to play for them- just that they’ve been robbed if the athletic scholarship doesn’t come through.

The other thing they know is that only chumps pay for their kids education- everyone else is getting a free ride, hiding assets to fool the financial aid police, or sending the kid to live in Michigan to become emancipated at age 17 so he can get instate tuition by age 18.

So you mention that other people actually do things like ROTC, take out loans, work/study, or save actual dollars to pay tuition down the road and they think you’re nuts. Only an idiot would defer maintenance on the house or drive an old car or not go skiing at Xmas just to bank that cash for a long-away event like college.

I am beyond sympathetic for people who face illness, job loss, disability, aging and indigent parents, and all the other things that sap a college fund years before college comes around. I am less sympathetic to folks like my neighbors who think that sacrificing for your kids is nuts when you can just let someone else pay your bills for you. ROTC? Get your %^&* shot off in Afghanistan? That’s for losers.

Garland- I am said that this thread took a nasty and personal tone. If the recession continues any longer, all those folks lined up at Tumblebugs and Baby Mozart classes and Gymboree and Suzuki and toddler chess coaching will be deciding between “enrichment” and buying groceries… so your choices will come back into vogue. It is a sign of a consumerist society gone amok when living beneath one’s means is considered cheating your kids out of their rightful spot in karate class or in Miss Trudy’s Ballet studio.

Hey-my kids spent their youths at the library and playing in our sandbox. I’m waiting for all the anger to come out in therapy but so far, they just seem to be successfully launched into adulthood with jobs, health insurance, and volunteer work on the side.

"The Whole System Failed Us"

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