<p>psych – you make some good points. I often feel that people form opinions about someone’s competence based on the name of their school. Some seem to assume that all kids that go to state schools aren’t very smart. Ouch. However, if you are in the top of your class, I think you have excellent prospects for grad school. And will likely have the same options or better than your peers who went to expensive schools. Good luck.</p>
<p>Barristerdad:</p>
<p>As one engaged in the “catfight” I beg to disagree about the tenor and indeed, purpose of purpleflurp’s gratuitous and ignorant comments about Garland’s son. Yes, Purpleflurp has a right to his or her opinion; so has Garland. She expressed them. There was absolutely no call to bring up her son. Sheesh. And that is MY opinion, and I’m sticking to it.</p>
<p>BarristerDad posted:
“Indeed, the “cat fight” by some (like Garland and others) against Purpleflurp for deigning to express his opinion (and clearly he was NOT attacking) should serve as a clarion call for all of us to take a breath and remember that CC is a wonderful forum for many disparate viewpoints.”</p>
<p>Thank you. I was not attacking, just stating the opinion that each of us is entitled to express.</p>
<p>And in your freely expressed opinion, you were entitled to bring in Garland’s son? And insinuating that by dropping out of college for reasons unknown to you he was being disrespectful? Sorry, I don’t buy it. And neither, more to the point, did Garland. You can disagree with Garland’s approach to life all you want; there was absolutely no call to bring up her son into it.</p>
<p>And, Barristerdad, we have a constitutional right to be as disagreeable as we want. That comes with free speech, non?
Still, I think I’ve made my feelings on the subject clear enough. I’ll try not to repeat myself. 'Night.</p>
<p>Garland brought in Garland’s son, his gambling, etc. I wouldnt call the son disprectful, I was just saying that of all the ways to save on money, moving to an area without a good HS would be my last step. To each our own.</p>
<p>Again, regarding the generic situation of leaving a school early, dropping out, etc. It’s a life lesson that cannot necessarily be predicted. Other parents on CC have experienced this, despite the whole family having done research & visited. Gosh, I consider it a “savings” of sorts to leave a school before an entire 4 years is out, if a more suitable school or direction results from that departure. Look on it this way: Many people go through 4 yrs. undergrad at a private, then an add’l professional school, and/or part of a long professional school such as medical, & only then discover they are not cut out for that career that they assumed they would always love. What about the investment then, particularly if parents funded them? Would it be better for them to swallow their pride & ‘protect’ their parents by becoming unhappy lawyers or doctors, ending up years later unhappy practitioners, spouses, parents? What’s the financial gain in that? Years of psychiatrists & anti-depressants? Frustrated clients & patients? Closed practices, resulting in loss of investment? I don’t get the reasoning. I’d rather have a happier son on the road to finding his true direction which could potentially earn him big $$$ while he’s thriving doing what he loves & studying where he loves it. The self-discovery that is a sign and result of a decision change is, as the commercial says, “priceless.”</p>
<p>Edit to add: That would also cover if that self-discovery included realization of some flaws, immaturities, weaknesses, etc. that are preventing completion of a goal and need to be addressed.</p>
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</p>
<p>Actually, it might work for some families. My friend and his wife bought a house in Inglewood near USC. Both of their kids graduated Valedictorians at the high school and got into Stanford. The oldest child is at a medical school in CA right now.</p>
<p>So what has moving to a cheaper area to do with gambling? Does it mean that if the family had lived in a more affluent neighborhood, the son would never have developed an interest in gambling or any of the other issues that led to his dropping out? Is that a general statement that we all should not bother to save for college because our kids might drop out? I really don’t see the connection between Garland’s modest lifestyle and her son’s dropping out of college.</p>
<p>Epiphany: I agree with you.
I know at least two people who went to top law schools then on to top law firms then gave up after a few years and went to grad school to study history. Were they being disrespectful of their parents’ sacrifices by ditching law or finally seeing the light?</p>
<p>
Wasn’t there a thread about a family that moved to a less affluent district to give their child the opportunity to shine in a less competitive school?</p>
<p>Most college students change majors. Some go on an extended hiatus. Some go straight through college, without working. </p>
<p>Fortunately, we live in a culture where anyone can go back to school, if they so choose. When I finally graduated, it was quite a relief - long story, but a grad check that went wrong, some different choices in college, and three kids later and I finally finished my nearly complete degree!</p>
<p>My next college program was MUCH easier to complete - but I will tell you, there were several awkward conversations with people…“you are still working on that degree? Really?” </p>
<p>Our lives may take different paths, and some may never go to college, or finish a program. But, hopefully, whatever we do or our kids, we know how many terrific opportunities there are for students to get a degree, no matter what their age.</p>
<p>There is even open source classes that are free to audit through MIT and other programs. It really never is “too late” to continue - or start an education!</p>
<p>I think I kind of get what Purpleflurp is saying–garland is placing high value (and thinks others should) on being able to send her (?) kids to elite schools with elite kids, elite professors, a highly academic atmosphere, etc., because they lived below their means. Purpleflurp is placing high value on what the kids DO with that experience and opportunity. True, we don’t know the circumstances of garland’s S dropping out, so we can’t/shouldn’t really judge it. However, what you do with someone else’s money can mean a lot. </p>
<p>Students who have my university’s upper most merit aid award are required to (a) write a thank you living to the person funding their particular scholarship and (b) fill out a full application every year, including an essay, resume, and faculty recommendation, despite the fact that renewal is pretty much just GPA-based unless there are serious issues. I think that they do this in large part to remind us that what we are doing with the gift of a free or greatly price-reduced college education MATTERS, that they gave us this scholarship for a reason and we should live up to the promise we showed when we were awarded it. This doesn’t necessarily mean getting a 4.0–it could mean going on a service learning trip to Africa, interning at NASA, teaching a freshman seminar, etc. We are expected to do something at least “respectable” with the investment of others, even though that investment is equal to or slightly less than one year of a fully-pay Ivy (~$45,000 over 4 years, most OOS students get an additional $5,000 a year as long as they live in university-affiliated housing). </p>
<p>So, even though I don’t think we should jump to snap judgments or ad hominiem attacks, I think Purpleflurp is saying that garland places high value on being able to afford to send his kids to elite schools and that high value should also be placed on what they do with that opportunity (and indeed, garland’s S may have done great things but a degree is a very nice, very concrete “thing” to have).</p>
<p>I’m certainly no basher of “non-traditional” paths through college–my parents took 5 and 22 (yes, 22!–and he’s now an engineer, and, imho, a great one) years respectively to earn their bachelor’s degrees, and my brother, at 23, does not have a degree yet and is not in school, though all wish he would return, but I do see the value in just getting it “done” (but well)!</p>
<p>It is very common for college students to exhibit problems that were undiagnosed earlier, or whose symptoms were seen for what they were only in hindsight. Not every student graduates in four years. Many take time off for personal reasons, perhaps a semester, perhaps a year or more.
At any rate, this seems a little removed from the issue of college affordability. I have been doing a bit of research into COA at various state universities and am rather shocked. Costs have really increased over the last couple of years.</p>
<p>psych_ posted:
“Purpleflurp is placing high value on what the kids DO with that experience and opportunity.”</p>
<p>You get it.</p>
<p>Psych:
I think you have a very generous interpretation of purpleflurp’s comments. I can see that you have chosen your field well! I still don’t see the relevance of Garland’s son’s case, especially since he is working, but whatever.
I will only say that many less selective private colleges cost nearly as much as highly selective ones. Emmanuel College in Boston (59% admission rate) will cost $40k. Harvard (admission rate 7% will cost $48k (I’m not including books and incidentals in either figure). The cost at UMass-Amherst (admission rate 66%) is $25k.</p>
<p>Back to the article … some observations for parents and students:</p>
<p>1) Be careful of having a “dream school.”
2) Be wary of pitches from colleges that counsel folks to not let cost be a barrier.
3) Flexibility and pragmatism are virtues, as Psych has demonstrated.
4) Don’t expect others to pay for your own education.</p>
<p>5) If you’re a “high achiever” without a high bank account, include schools on your list that offer generous merit aid in the merit categories that apply to you.
6) Include a couple of financial safeties on your college list, unless you are wealthy.</p>
<h1>5 and #6 are researchable!</h1>
<p>Psych - your school should be very proud to have a student like you. I think you will shine no matter where you go.</p>
<p>
Or perhaps BECAUSE of the challenges you have faced? Steel must be tempered to become strong; so too perhaps must people. And psych - I agree about the wonderful young person I see posting here. (And aren’t we all now making positive assumptions based on a few paragraphs?)</p>
<p>Regarding “financial aid” - it astounds me how many people confuse “need-based aid” with “merit awards”. And refuse to believe it when a school says “We don’t give merit aid.” Just checked USC’s scholarships: they offer just over 300 scholarships to non-international students, for a freshman class of 7,875 admitted (22 percent) students. Took me less than 3 minutes to find this information on USC’s website. To assume that one’s child is that extraordinary, compared to all the 35,000 other applicants or even the 7,875 admittees, is absurd. It’s a 3% chance that the student will get anything, and a 2% chance that the student will get at least 1/2 tuition. What other system would these parents bank on with such low odds? Maybe the odds get better the higher your stats are over the 75th percentile, but still - they’ve got to be lower than the admit rate to Harvard, and how many people count on that?</p>
<p>Not that I should be answering, and not that it has anything to do with this thread, but S picked up gambling at his Ivy (and it has nothing to do with why he left.)</p>
<p>And that is all I’m saying–CC has never had anything to do with concerted pickings through people’s past posts. I made the mistake with agreeing with the OP.</p>
<p>This is not the CC I came to.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, there’s a wealth of good advice in many of the previous posts which I hope will help others make choices that will get their kids where they need to be.</p>
<p>Chedva:</p>
<p>Good points. I did see that NMFs were eligible for half-tuition. I suppose it means it’s not automatic and that only a very few are actually selected? It’s supposed to be worth $18k. It would still leave $20k per year.</p>