<p>yes, and for our family, expecting to have our 28 yr old S living here is, well, ridiculous(referencing post 9). Wife and I have always believed it is our job as parents to raise a happy, healthy, self-supporting productive member of society(other things too).
Unless some huge unexpected medical, or similar catastrophic need came about we’d expect a 28 yr old son to be living his own life in his own home. Under normal circumstances, if he were with us at 28 we’d feel we had failed him.</p>
<p>NNGMM:</p>
<p>Believe me, we’re not fooling overselves. But there is a large difference between them sleeping in the same bed when we are 1,000 miles away vs in the next room. It is a matter of us feeling comfortable in our own home. Not just for us either. Did it ever occur to you that one / both of them might be uncomfortable as well?</p>
<p>We probably will leave it up to them if she would be more comfortable in the guest room, but I will talk to my son to make clear that sleeping is the only thing that is to happen while we are home. </p>
<p>Things were much easier when he was 8…</p>
<p>Same rules apply to all members of the Bunsens’ household (except the cats :)): use common sense. If you are going to be late for dinner due to hanging out with buddies, deadlines, unforeseen events in the lab, etc., call or text the party in charge of the dinner so the dinner does not get re-heated three times. If you are going to come home past midnight, warn the others and be as quiet as a mouse when you walk through the door - or you might get mistaken for a burglar. If you are inviting a big company or guests who will be staying overnight, give BB an adequate warning so she can clean the house, get enogh groceries to feed everyone and do the laundry. That’s pretty much it. Oh, and no eating upstairs (and this applies to the cats, too)…</p>
<p>I always thought the rule in this house was common sense, be polite, what you all are saying. But…
a couple weeks ago S2, a high school junior came home smelling of cigarette smoke – just faintly. I asked him about it and he said that a some one had been smoking in a friend’s car. I knew it wasn’t him, but still kind of tut-tutted. Two weeks later S1 comes home for the summer, goes out and gets in the car the two boys share and came roaring back into the house. “WHO has been smoking in the car? THE RULE IN THIS HOUSE IS NO SMOKING IN THE CAR!!!” So I guess I’m wrong.</p>
<p>This is really a tough situation. They feel that now that they are adults, they can do as they please. And they can for the most part. However, when they are in YOUR house, they are guests of sorts. What sort of behavior and courtesies do you expect from any of your guests and if you were taking boarders, what would be the rules for them?</p>
<p>I asked my son what would be the family reaction if I should go out one night and not return, not answer my cell phone and leave everyone wondering where I am and what happened. It’s not immaturity or mistrust that has me calling and letting people know what my plans are. When I stay with friends, I certainly tell them my plans, whether I am going to be around for dinner. So why shouldn’t young adults act the same way in others’ homes? House rules rule when you are in that house. If you don’t like it, stay elsewhere.</p>
<p>I don’t permit smoking in my house. THat includes my 80+ year old mother who had to puff away in the cold winter outside. So that certainly includes my kids and their friends. I don’t want illegal drugs in my house or car. That includes EVERYONE. It is not a custom made rule for my kids. I don’t want illegal things happening under my roof. I don’t want others to be taking certain risks around me. These things are House rules, not special rules for my adult kids. </p>
<p>They have a hard time with this transition. My son ordered a drink one night. Fine. He is over 21. But you know, as a rule, I don’t order drinks unless the host offers or orders one himself. Because they are expensive and when I am on someone else’s tab, I feel that is a courtesy. If I am truly dying for a drink, I would have a separate bar tab done or order a bottle or wind on my tab. It is rude to order drinks on others’ tab because it is expensive and the host just might not want to pay for drinks on top of a dinner. We just went through this thing again last weekend. They just don’t get it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I am told by other parents that my kids are exemplary houseguest, so the poor manners may just be a parent/kid thing that is still hanging in there.</p>
<p>There are also rules that are there when you are paying for things for the kids. There are things I do not want to support with my dime. Don’t buy drugs, cigarettes, other contraband with my money. Yeah, it’s all my money in a way, so don’t let me see that stuff. You just might get a reduction in your allowance or get no unallocated funds if you keep that stuff up. Why should I pay for that stuff when I don’t want to do so? I think if you have the money to pay for that, you can use it towards some of the other things that I am subsidizing. It is common sense and courtesy for anyone to make sure benefactors see that their money is being spent in a way they like. </p>
<p>With my first one, I was in the situation where I so desperately wanted certain outcomes that I compromised a lot of my own feelings and accomodated. I did not get any thanks for that. In fact, it just sent conflicting messages. Now I am much stricter. All of us here at home are on an austerity regiment due to school costs for the kids’ school choices. We are doing that because we believe that is important. However, if I see the money going towards behaviors and things that I do not support, I don’t see any reason why I am scrimping for that. </p>
<p>I keep the moral part of it out of the picture. I have no control over that. I have been clear where I stand, but they don’t have to agree with me. Maybe they cannot. But under my roof, in my company and with my money, there are certain things they cannot do or they have to leave and do without my support. They are not happy with the way I have laid out the situation, but after a few incidents, they well understand.</p>
<p>
That would be nice! </p>
<p>
Well, I am happy for you. I am not one bit ashamed to say that I share my home with my single, college graduate 26 year old daughter. She can move out tomorrow and I would help her pack, but I don’t mind her being here.</p>
<p>As your children transition from teens to adults, the relationship changes - at least it should. Now that my children are older, only one teenager now, we are moving more toward an adult/adult relationship. I don’t need to <em>parent</em> as much, which is nice. It is wonderful being friends with my children.</p>
<p>I am 18.
My parents rules for me are simple:
-Call if you’re out past midnight.
-Make sure you don’t miss work.
-Boyfriend is allowed to stay over when my parents are out of town.
-Take care of my dog.
-I can have as many friends over as I want as long as we’re quiet when it’s late if my mom has to work the next day. </p>
<p>That’s about it. My parents are cool and they know that I’ll do whatever I want anyways. They basically gave me free reign when I was 16 because they knew that they raised me right and that I would make correct decisions. Essentially, they trust their own parenting skills (which many parents seem to lack nowadays…) Plus they know that I don’t drink or do drugs and I always use protection. </p>
<p>I work and make my own money, pay my own bills, so they really don’t have anything to hold over my head per se. </p>
<p>I don’t think my transition home from college next year will be rough because I already have freedom.</p>
<p>I am still hoping someone here will clarify an issue for me. A couple of posters here have indicated they feel it ok for underage family member to have a glass of wine with dinner, but not a can of beer or a shot of whiskey. I am trying so hard to think why they feel one drink of wine is ok, but not another.
So far, I can only come up with a <em>perceived refinement</em> associated with the glass of wine as the only difference. That explanation seems so arrogant. Is there a nicer one I am overlooking? If we put the shot or the beer in a crystal wine glass would that then make it ok? Would someone who feels one glass of wine(as described) is ok, but one beer isn’t please explain the distinction to me?</p>
<p>^As another poster mentioned that it is their custom to open a bottle of wine for dinner, so therefore they allow their child to have a glass of wine in the house at dinner.
I don’t think it has anything to do with arrogance or a percieved refinement.
I too allow my D an occasional small glass of wine if I am serving it with our dinner. If I made a dinner that called for a special beer, I would offer her that too. But in my house H and I do not drink beer with dinner.
D does not drink, except for that glass of wine on maybe 3 occasions during year. If her friends are over, no one gets alcohol.
For many cultures, wine is a big part of dinner, so I don’t think its the same with beer.</p>
<p>Younghoss----in our family wine has always been an integral component of almost every evening meal. It is not a perceived refinement as much as it is part of our family’s cultural heritage. I have been trying to explain this to my ethnophobic in-laws for ages, but have come to the conclusion that it is a useless exercise. To them wine is on the par with shots of whiskey, crack and heroin.</p>
<p>The take which my wife and I had over the years on underage drinking was and remains frequently at odds with the “wisdom” and often judgmental views of other parents. We felt early on that it was important to teach our kids responsible behavior with respect to booze both by us modeling the behavior we would want them to adopt and supervising them engaging in incremental “programmed learning” through experience so that by the time the were out of the house at college, we did not have concerns about whether they would behave responsibly and safely. Part of the process included permitting them to have “on hands” experience under very controlled circumstances and with appropriate limits. Part of the process involved us all having very open and candid dialog about the effects and dangers of booze, what it means to drink responsibly, what our rules, limits and expectations were and what the consequences would be for both demonstrating responsible behavior as well as for violating our expectations. The out come of our efforts was what we had hoped. Both kids went off to college without feeling a need to “cut loose”, knew what their limits were, could responsibly evaluate whether it was appropriate and safe to have a drink and did not have any drinking or alcohol related issues. (And before anyone tells me I am “naive”, you don’t know my circumstances and relationship with my kids. I am anything but naive and my kids speak openly and candidly about a variety of “forbidden” topics involving their personal lives.)</p>
<p>My son is now 25 and “underage” drinking is no longer an issue". My daughter is 20 and when she is with us, whether at home or at a restaurant or function, the choice of whether to drink is hers and has been since she turned 18. She does not abuse that privilege nor act unsafely. Our approach has worked well for us and our kids. </p>
<p>younghoss, as to your question, here’s my take. For me, the difference is that there is a substantive and material difference between a glass or 2 of wine and a couple of bourbons. The likelihood of becoming unexpectedly intoxicated with a couple of glasses of wine, sipped over the course of a meal, is materially less than having a couple of servings of bourbon. To me, it’s nothing more than controlling the level of alcohol and safety. Once, when my daughter was 16 and we were on vacation in Mexico at an enclosed “all inclusive” resort, our rule was that our daughter could have 2 drinks a night when she was at the onsite disco with the kids of the family we were traveling with. She followed our limits meticulously, including checking in with us at designated intervals. No problems at all. On New Years Eve, she met up with us at a designated time and was obviously a bit tipsy. We asked her what had happened and she told us that she didn’t understand why she was tipsy, that she had only consumed an extra half a drink over the 2 drink limit. We asked her what the “half” was and she told us a “shot of tequila”. That was the end of her fun and frolic for the night - not as “punishment” but as a natural consequence of getting a bit intoxicated. The difference between sipping a glass of wine and having a shot of hard alcohol was a lesson that stuck with her.</p>
<p>When you have a shot of whiskey or tequila- other hard liquors are not often taken by themselves, customarily it is swallowed in one or two gulps.</p>
<p>Effects from liquor- are not felt right away & like at Thanksgiving or other occasions when people overindulge- it may hit all of a sudden after you have either drank or eaten way more than your body can handle.</p>
<p>My family didnt do this & my H family did so for different reasons, but a glass of wine with dinner to me- adds to the experience- a carefully chosen wine or even a glass of beer can complement the meal- but not many liquors go well with food- except for perhaps cognac and chocolate.</p>
<p>Another tic against hard liquor is that it is very easy to hide in drinks- IMO drinks that taste good with liquor- taste just as good without- the only reason to add it is for the inebriating effects</p>
<p>We model responsible drinking and live in a state where we are allowed to serve our own underage children, but they have no interest, so they aren’t getting/didn’t get any practice before heading off to college. My sophomore son still doesn’t drink and probably never will - he’s such a picky eater he probably won’t ever learn to like it and he’s impervious to peer pressure as far as I can tell. Younger son will probably learn to drink eventually, but is still stuck in “it even smells bad” mode now. I think he may well end up finding a drink he likes - probably starting with those disgusting sweet concoctions I drank in college.</p>
<p>We didn’t have rules before, so we are certainly not going to start now.</p>
<p>Sounds like MNK(post 31) has a very reasonable point of view, and is consistent. He permits different alcohols but strictly gauges the quantity. Much like my own plan. The difference is that the alcohol taken in from a glass of wine is about equal to a shot of bourbon and about equal to 1 can of beer. Beer has approx twice the quantity liquid of a glass of wine, but is roughly half the alcohol %. I will agree sipping a wine makes the experience last longer, but the alcohol and effect are measurably the same. Sipping a beer or a shot would make that last longer too. Time counts too, but that wasn’t in the original example(one glass of wine with dinner). If I drink one glass of wine over the course of 6 hours(an example) then yes, though the total alcohol % is the same, it will have less effect on me than than one shot of bourbon taken straight down, but that wasn’t the example. If I sip one shot of bourbon over 6 hours it would have less effect on me than one glass of wine consumed in 15 minutes. But that isn’t the example either. Those who overindulge wasn’t the example. I might, (theoretically) have an easier time drinking 6 shots of bourbon than 6 glasses of wine only because of the quantity of liquid ingested. Sure, those 6 shots might hit me harder than the 6 wines, especially because they are likely to be consumed more rapidly. But that isn’t my point either.
Some here aren’t clear on what I’m getting at; or do not wish to explain their position. I’m not saying I approve or disapprove of drinking alcohol- of age or underage, sips or shots, wine, beer, bourbon, gin, moonshine etc. I know wine is a big part of French and Italian cultures. Beer is the “bread of life” in Germany. I know some alcohol matches well with certain foods. None of that is my point. I am puzzled by those who permit underage drinking of one glass of wine but no other alcohol regardless of quantity. I don’t mean express a taste preference, but ALLOW only wine for underage drinkers. Why do those who only allow one wine consider a wine with dinner ok, but one beer with dinner not ok? The inconsistency as I see it is those who allow-key word- underage drinkers to drink wine, but no other spirit.</p>
<p>Well for one thing, it was legal to drink when I was 18. So it isn’t anything new that kids at that age do drink. With wine you can control the amount of alcohol, mixed drinks you cannot. Shots are a college/bar fad and we do not do that in my household. It would be reasonable to assume that teens/underage drinkers allowed to drink in the home in a controlled way are following what the parents do in the home. I did say beer would be ok if that is something we drank in our house, but it is not.
I have given my D a sip of my margarita when she has asked. You have to find what works for you in your own household and it depends on your kid, how they handlle themselves and their level of maturity.</p>
<p>younghoss, I agree with you in theory. A standard pour of wine, a bottle of beer, a shot of bourbon - it’s all the same in terms of the amount of alcohol. What’s different though - and here’s where an important part of the learning curve comes in - is that the drinking behavior that customarily occurs with each can be very different and, in addition, the way the different booze is served can impact on the risk of unintended intoxication. Wine is sipped, shots are often thrown down or consumed faster because of lesser volume. Sweet foo- foo drinks often go down like juice and can be misleading. Some establishments oversize their drinks or over pour their measures. I happen to love chocolate martinis (it’s like chocolate milk with a kick.) I generally can have 3 at a dinner out before I begin to feel the effects. There’s this one restaurant, though, where 2 of them get me very silly. Those are the kinds of lessons I felt it was important for my kids to learn before they were off on their own at college. I was much more comfortable having my daughter learn the lesson about that “half a drink” she had when we were on vacation together, than her learning that lesson and potentially some far more dangerous ones if she first experienced that situation at college, at a club, where suddenly she unexpectedly found herself intoxicated and fending for herself with strangers. (Which also raises another lesson we emphasized - strictly adhering to a buddy system when out and about.) I view it all as an important a life skill as teaching a kid to be “drown proof” in the water.</p>
<p>
I allowed my kids wine and beer when they were in high school (in my home) – but the point was I wanted to model what I consider appropriate & moderate drinking, and I also wanted the opportunity to observe them drinking. (My observation has been that alcoholics tend not to know how to stop – so I take it as a good sign when the youngster leaves an unfinished glass of wine at the table). Back in those days, when we had beer in the house, it was typical for a six pack to last 2 weeks, and on a hot day my son might ask me if I wanted to share a beer - and we’d each have half a beer. </p>
<p>My kids are both over 21 now so the issue is long behind us. I am a very light drinker – I always have beer and wine in the house, but I might have a glass of wine 3 times in a month… and the beer that is in my frig has been there since January. In fact – its there because I picked up a sixpack when my son was coming to visit at the end of December, assuming that he would want it … and in the 2 weeks he was here I think he only drank 1 bottle, maybe 2.</p>
<p>The spectrum of parenting is varied by household and by children within each household. Most of us know what our children are capable of and where they need help drawing the line. My D knows where the line is and doesn’t Choose to cross it. She lets me know where she is going, calls when late, doesn’t drink, smoke, etc. S on the other hand needs a bit of firmer encouragement to accomplish the same.
Btw, a discussion I had yesterday turned from discussing how some parents have always allowed the drinking to take place in their home, so they could monitor it. Now I hear some parents are allowing marijuana smoking at their home (on the patio) because they “know they are going to do it anyway” and don’t want them getting arrested for having it or out sneaking it in their cars and driving. It seems this is evolving from allowing alcohol to to allowing smoking.</p>
<p>The scenario proposed was understanding the difference some see between one glass of wine, or one shot, or one beer for underage drinkers at a dinner meal. Multiple drinks, heavier pours, unexpected intoxication in a club, are all valid points in life, and would be valid for a different scenario, but do not apply for this one. The scenario proposed was understanding the difference some see between one glass of wine, or one shot, or one beer for underage drinkers at a dinner meal.</p>