<p>How about chores? Do you still ask your kids to do their usual chores? My H thinks that because she is 18, that she can come and go as she pleases. She is very good about where she is , who she is with and respectful of the home and calling when not going to be in at a reasonable time.</p>
<p>We’ve never really had rules in our house. Never a curfew or specified chores. Common sense and respect have always seemed to work well. I like knowing who will be around for dinner, and if you go out, what time you expect to be home. My Ds all did their own laundry before they went to college so that doesn’t change when they’re home. Same with looking after their own rooms and bathrooms. Everyone pitches in with after meal clean-up, and if I want help with something else, I ask. It’s not a perfect system, but it works for us.</p>
<p>The scenario proposed was understanding the difference some see between one glass of wine, or one shot, or one beer for underage drinkers at a dinner meal.</p>
<p>IMO you can’t isolate that experience, because the teen in question will not.
Since their experience and maturity is more limited- they easily can extrapolate that a glass of any wine/beer or a mixed drink is equal in effect. even when it is not.</p>
<p>Chores:
S1 (returning from sophomore year today!!) shares a bathroom with S2 (HS junior). When S1 is away at school, S2 has the sole responsibility for cleaning said bathroom every other week. Now with S1 home, they will again alternate weeks cleaning the bathroom. They will also alternate mowing the lawn and will be responsible for checking the oil and car maintenance on the vehicle they share.</p>
<p>They know that laundry is done on Saturday, so if that doesn’t work with their schedule (like they forget to get clothes to the laundry area) they can do their own (both have and know how). Other than that, H & I take care of the rest; we’re pretty low maintenance as is the house.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, I didn’t isolate the experience. I didn’t try to. Justamomof4 did, in post 4. She tells us she permits underage drinking of alcohol in her home with dinner, but only if wine is the alcohol. I am trying to get an understanding of why she considers wine acceptable but not other alcohols even in similar small quantity.</p>
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<p>I actually think that it’s the inability to distinguish between a glass of wine with dinner and other behaviors/alcohol that causes so much overdrinking among HS and college students. There IS a difference, having to do with enhancing the dining experience, conviviality, etc. It is not about drinking to get drunk. (Although of course, you can abuse wine just as much as any other alcohol.) I think this is a good thing to learn. My D complains that too many of her friends have that “get totally wasted” mentality around alcohol and she cannot understand why they can’t just enjoy a glass or two of wine or even a cocktail. She has never been interested in abusing alcohol, and we’ve always had a relaxed attitude towards wine at dinnertime.</p>
<p>^ Because wine tastes disgusting. And it seems to white and upper classy to have a glass of wine to “enhance the dining experience” that I’d never be caught dead drinking it.</p>
<p>To be fair all alcohol tastes gross. One of the worst drugs around.</p>
<p>mousegray, just had the same conversation with my daughter and one of her close friends last night when my wife and I took them out to dinner to celebrate finishing their sophomore years of college. They both were commenting that when so many of their college peers drink, they drink to excess with either the purpose or result of intoxication. They both felt that growing up in households where learning to drink responsibly, if one elects to have a drink, was an important life experience that enabled them to make responsible decisions about drinking in college - including electing not to drink on many occasions when others are.</p>
<p>I’m not a college student, and yes, many probably drink too much, but while that is important in life, it isn’t important to the specific circumstance emeraldkity4 described.
I often drink a beer with a cooked-out brat. I often drink a bourbon/coke with a steak dinner. I believe that enhances my meal. Am I wrong? Does Mousegray want to say those alcohol examples DON’T enhance my “dining experience, conviviality, etc. It is not about drinking to get drunk.” Do some believe only one glass of wine at dinner enhances the experience? Does mousegray mean to imply that those who have 1 beer at dinner will become problem drinkers, but those who have 1 wine won’t?Even if so, wouldn’t that mean a preference for wine over other alcohols? Such as “I like red wine with steak, but not beer”?
Remember the premise isn’t a preference, but rather a house rule.</p>
<p>Is it necessary to logically justify aspects of family culture? If your family culture is to drink a little wine with dinner, I don’t see the harm. I believe my state laws support drinking in a family setting, if your own kids. If a sip of an old fashioned is part of family culture, or a few ounces of beer, I don’t see the harm either. Culture has rules and responsibilities. You break those rules, there are consequences and loss of priviledge. </p>
<p>If the only culture of drinking ever participated in is ‘get wasted’ how will responsible drinking ever be learned? </p>
<p>When on a field trip to Europe in HS, I signed the permission slip for my son to drink in cafes. This was his first experience with alcohol, aside from that minor amount of wine with Christmas dinner. I wanted his first experiences with alcohol to be public, with food. </p>
<p>If the family had a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, I think another approach is warranted. Otherwise, I don’t see much respect for the drinking age being law in this country. I don’t want to flaunt the law, but as my kids live in a culture that does, I need to work with the reality of their situation.</p>
<p>To be fair, I rarely drink. I don’t need alcohol to have a good time. And I tell the neighbors to call the police if they ever see inappropriate parties in the house when I’m not here. I abhore the drinking to excess culture, and I think we’re all trying to find emotionally healthy ways to combat that culture.</p>
<p>As great lakes mom points out, some of the issue involves the culture of the family - are the parents, grandparents and other close family members wine drinkers, beer, mixed drink or “straight” booze drinkers. Do they drink frequently, infrequently or not at all. That will influence the approach that each family takes and the views of what is appropriate and what is not. There is no right or wrong answer.</p>
<p>Younghoss, I’m trying to understand your point and am just not getting it. The reality is, there is a big difference between giving a teenager a 4 oz glass of wine at dinner or a glass of scotch. The alcohol content per volume is hardly the same and if you are talking about teaching a kid responsible social drinking, one is going to be more appropriate than the other given the kid’s age, experience and past demonstrated level of responsible decision making. The distinction is not one of some type of “social elitism” as is kind of being suggested. It is one of responsible parenting in my view. </p>
<p>I am hardly a “prude” about this. I’ve allowed my kids to consume alcohol in some form or another, along a very calculated and controlled sliding scale with supervision and limits, since they were 13 and at the age of 15, the first full drink that they were allowed to have when we were on vacation at an all inclusive resort (in a country where the drinking age was “can you reach over the bar to get it”) was a glass of wine at dinner. At 18, when my daughter started college, the decision of whether and what to drink became entirely hers because of the confidence I had in her judgement and knowing that when at school she was making those decisions on her own anyway. When she was at home, I wasn’t going to impose an a priori “rule” on her that she wasn’t living under on her own. Not only would that have been hypocritical and regressive in the maturing parent/young adult relationship that was developing but, also, I wanted to observe first hand how she would conduct herself with my “governors” turned off. All that being said, would I have allowed that first full drink to be a glass of “hard alcohol” or even a mixed drink? No way. That glass of wine was measurable, controllable and predictable with regard to the volume of alcohol she was getting and the effects. It was a basic question of safety.</p>
<p>Moving away from the question of booze for a moment to the overall question of rules for when kid returns from college, I have 2 basic rules. The first, for my kids, is: act with consideration, respect and cooperation as you would in any adult interaction when living under the same roof with other adults. The second rule is for us: don’t impose limits for purposes of controlling their lives, impose those limits necessary to control our own lives, taking into account that we also have to be reasonable and flexible where we can. Simply put, you can’t and shouldn’t return to the old parent/child paradigm. They have moved on and so should the parents to a new level of relating as adults who are also part of a family.</p>
<p>younghoss is referring to this comment by me in post #4. Obviously younghoss is splitting hairs with me - deciding to be confrontational early in this thread and put out that I didn’t respond to a lengthy PM questioning the rationale for drinking rules in my home. Sorry I have been out of town at a college graduation and am just catching up here.</p>
<p>
This is the original comment which was an offhand remark about rules concerning grown children.
Apparently younghoss can’t rest until I clarify.</p>
<p>I never said I would disapprove of other forms of alcohol. My twenty year old will ask for a glass of wine with dinner when she is home and we are having wine with dinner. We don’t have wine with dinner every night - I never had alcohol in the house when the kids were small but have two kids who are over 21 who will buy it. I have no idea why she asks for wine and not beer or a shot of bourbon. I guess I will have to ask her.
If my 20 year old daughter wanted a beer with dinner, I would probably let her. Maybe even a diluted gin and tonic. </p>
<p>Younghoss - it’s not the “wine” and I am not being elitist. Alcohol can be enjoyed before, during or after meals. When enjoyed with dinner, I don’t have a problem with it. Note that “dinner” is normally a large meal of the day, which includes family, food and conversation. At our house “dinner” takes at least an hour. This amounts safely to injesting one drink per hour with food.</p>
<p>I don’t allow and never did allow my underage children to entertain their friends in my home and serve alcohol and they have never asked - or tried it.</p>
<p>Correction: </p>
<p>In my post 49, I referred (incorrectly) to something Emeraldkity4 said. I mistakenly attributed a comment by Justamomof4(her post 4) as something Ek4 had said.</p>
<p>My apologies to both individuals for mis-identifying the comments.</p>
<p>In our state, it is legal for a parent to allow their underage children to have a bit of wine or champagne. It is spelled out clearly in the code. </p>
<p>However, that it completely at the parent’s discretion. Just because it is legal does not mean you have to offer it. Or that if it is illegal, that you cannot offer it. It’s just that you should know what the law is on these things.</p>
<p>House rules are whatever those who rules the house decide to make.</p>
<p>Interesting cpt’s code clearly spells out only wines can be allowed. Ohio permits parent to give their child any alcohol, and/or a legal guardian can too, and a spouse if over 21 of course. Of course anything deemed in excess could risk child endangerment laws/contributing to delinquency laws, buts thats a different issue. Those Ohio laws however are referring to providing alcohol in public, and not necessarily in one’s home. </p>
<p>A side note- Although it’s rarely strictly observed in a bar, a server here has to serve the drink to the purchasing parent and the adult can then give the drink to the minor. If a server serves it directly to the minor, even if the parent is sitting right beside the minor, then the bar is in violation.</p>
<p>my chemistry teacher’s rule for her adult kids was amusing.</p>
<p>she didn’t put a curfew on them. only the car.</p>
<p>^ But did the carriage turn into a pumpkin at mid-night. Then it would be your alchemy teacher 
.</p>
<p>^lol</p>
<p>she said that her kid actually came home, dropped off the car, then headed back out again lol.</p>
<p>well, i guess it prevents the car from getting messed up…</p>
<p>S1 is similar to mathmom’s S1 – such a picky eater that he’d never get past the smell or taste. S1 still has grape juice at the Passover Seder. S2 will occasionally ask for a sip of wine, and some sips of beer when we were overseas. Has not been overly impressed. We have alcohol only a couple of times a year at our house and in our state, it’s also legal for parents to serve their own children <em>at home.</em> </p>
<p>House rules are no smoking, no drinking. (They’ve seen enough extended family with issues to realize it’s a path they don’t want to follow.) Never been a problem. I will miss S1 not being home this summer, as he is willing and nimble enough to get on the roof and clean out the gutters (our oak trees are shedding helicopter seeds and pollen…).</p>
<p>I’ve always been fairly liberal, and my kids have never been in any kind of trouble, so I think it worked for us. The over 21s can drink, but have been told repeatedly that they cannot drive if they drink. The parents of their friends have to be willing to let them sleep over if they drink. The 19 year old can only drink in my home. Her friends have to stay over if they have even one drink. I take their keys and return them in the morning.</p>
<p>They have to text me if they are out later than 1:00, as a courtesy.</p>
<p>Older D asked if boyfriend could sleep in her room as long as they don’t “sleep” in the room if you know what I mean. My DH told her that if he heard them having sex, they would be treated to having to listen to me and him having sex. </p>
<p>We have heard nothing. :-)</p>