<p>Some allegedly smart people, i.e. prosecutors, have rolled the dice against Dershowitz…and LOST. In many matters, he knows what he’s talking about.</p>
<p>From the newsman link above,</p>
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<p>It’s not as though all Americans think she’s innocent. There are questions and her answers are lacking. Even in the US that could be a problem.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter what I think or say, not a whit. Nor what others are saying. The Italian courts have found Knox guilty and if they ask the US to send her back to Italy, the correct process would be for the US to start the process. Knox would have the right to fight it and she likely will. There is a procedure for this. What Dershowitz is saying, is that it is unlikely she would prevail, and there is precedence for this. The double jeopardy thing that so many are bringing up won’t hold as there have been such cases similar to this and they don’t fall under what we consider double jeopardy. A recent Canadian case is a similar example of how double jeopardy is not defined and protected in the US when an outside country court is involved. So that is going to be an issue.</p>
<p>The other thing is that Knox, her family and her attorneys have all been long aware that this verdict was possible and even probable. it was no surprise. They have been working to get evidence and testimony to present to US courts that the evidence used by the Italian system would not be admissable, would not hold water here in the US. They have paid a number of experts to go to Italy, examine the evidence and so state. None of any of the experts that would be upheld in a US court for such a motion have been found in the most key areas. As I said, I know someone who tried to come up with such a determination. The problem is that is not the case, and the Knox camp have yet to find anyone that would hold credibility in a US court to say this is all based on no evidence that would be upheld here. FBI agents spending a few days in italy, new casters, self picked experts don’t do it. There are those who would, and they have all come to the very same conclusion, unfortunately for Knox,</p>
<p>Looking at the evidence, I don’t see a conviction either for such a serious charge, but then I tend to be very much pro defendent. I really don’t see the evidence at all for Sollecito, and it seems to me that if he weren’t linked to Knox, he would have gotten off. His biggest problem is lying to the police (as some of his statements are directly refuted by evidence) but none of the lies, or truths point to him being involved other than supporting Knox. I see only one footprint that fits his–could fit but no DNA attached, just similar size that even links him to this whole mess other than saying he was with Knox all of the time, a stance he changed to after initially saying Knox left that evening for the entire night (his very first statement) to saying she was there but he could not swear she was there every minute, to swearing she was. The police out and out told him that if he would testify by his first statement that he would be given leeway and not charged with murder. He chose to stick with Knox and be tried together–my guess is that the combined efforts looked better in terms of chances of acquittal than doing it separately, and he looked a lot better supporting his love. I frankly don’t think he knows what the heck happened that night–he was blitzed out. </p>
<p>But my thoughts mean nothing. Just bringing up some facts, as well as some ideas that the media push that the Knox PR machine is not addressing, or when they address it, they push it aside with some untrue statements. </p>
<p>Though I do not think a jury in the US would have likely convicted the pair on the evidence I see, there would sure as heck be an outcry about the black dude fast tracked to jail as happened with Guedes if this happened here. That has been very much underplayed. That there is a certainty he was with Kercher is the reason why, but really think about how this would have played out here, given experts on Knox’s dime have all said the evidence is sufficient to bring those charges against her in this country.</p>
<p>There is also the troubling issue that though Knox contends she was held with no food, fluid, bathroom privileges, no interpreter, for 43 hours (the statement was made, written, signed in less than three, a female interpreter was there, all say she was fed, given tea and water, and full bathroom privilieges) and was abused when she confessed and implicated her employer, she has not sued the police or taken other action she could have. Lumumba certainly has and won his case and has long been paid by the police for the false accusation. He’s yet to collect from Knox and she really should have paid him, and gone after the Italian police, as each time this cluster frak goes to court the whole mess of lies she told gets consideration ONLY because of the Lumumba charge in there. It would not be court admissable otherwise as she was not with an attorney and was considered a suspect when she made those statements. They get brought into the picture because of the false accusation made against Lumumba which is a charge of slander that holds. If she just paid the guy what the damages, which comes to $150K, those statements would be wiped. She could then pursue a case against the police for all of the things she is claiming, and try to get that settlement back. The problem is that she doesn’t have a case. She wrote out her confession and accusiation in less the 3 hours after being AT the police station–willlingly there, and was drawn in only because her statement and alibi did not match Sollecito’s at all. His rendition of that night had her leaving at a certain time, not staying the night. And he was not questioned long at all, and his statement was not changed at that point (it was later–turned out a lot of things he said, did not match computer, phone, his own father’s recall, and he did then say he did not know if Knox left that night). </p>
<p>Bear in mind those were all INITIAL statements that did not match, hold up,etc, before either of them were suspects. Knox was not even asked to come to the police station, and she INSISTED on making the confession which the police took KNOWING it would not hold up in court , or even be admissable. They were hot on taking it to get Lumumba as they KNEW that a male was<br>
involved there who was NOT Sollecito, and her statement was not so much to get her on the hot seat as to get the primary male whose DNA they had–they knew there was a black male on the scene there that night. The only reason the entire exchange is on record is because she accused an innocent man and he sued her, and she has not cleared up that issue. </p>
<p>The fact that sufficient evidence can be gathered to charge a person does not mean that they are guilty. Far from it. In this case, the evidence that she did NOT do it is even more convincing. But if the police/prosecutor WANT to charge a particular person, they will put together a case to get an indictment and sometimes even a guilty verdict using cherry-picked “facts” and ignore the evidence to the contrary. </p>
<p>The question is almost always, do they want to simply hang the crime on someone whom they think they can convict in order to clear the case, or do they want to find out who REALLY did it. When Dershowitz says that people in the US are in jail on less evidence than there is against Amanda Knox, he is not saying that they are necessarily GUILTY. Look at the Central Park Jogger case. Look at all of the people freed from death row by the Innocence Project.</p>
<p>I must say, the fact that the supposed murder weapon was obviously NOT the murder weapon makes me wonder what so-called “evidence” Dershowitz is talking about. Where is the lynchpin of the prosecutor’s case? She had sex and told lies? Please.</p>
<p>I have yet to see anyone propose that she did anything to actually contribute to the murder that is not ludicrous. I gather, cptofthehouse, that you no longer are saying that she and/or Sollecito held the victim down, since their DNA was not present? If not, then what are you saying she DID do? Lie? So she should be railroaded into an Italian prison because she ditzy/dumb/young/scared and made up a story? Give me a break.</p>
<p>Look, I don’t blame the Italians for looking at her for the crime. But when they got the crime scene results, they either needed to find out whether she actually conspired with Guede, or drop her as a suspect. Same goes for Sollecito. The fact that they did not shows that they have no honor and no honesty.</p>
<p>That shoeprint in blood? It matched Rudy Guede’s shoe perfectly and was withdrawn as evidence by the prosecution, though it was used originally to arrest Sollecito. There were a few smeary images of bare footprints that they claimed showed him to be in the apartment at the time of the murder, but they were not made in blood, they could not tell when they were made, and they did not have enough detail to identify even if they were from a right or left foot. </p>
<p>The appeals court had appointed an independent experts to review the evidence. The prosecutors office and the defense both had their own experts there to watch, not to do the review. So what did these independent experts find when they reexamined the 4 “blood samples” collected from the murder weapon by the Perugia lab? No blood, no DNA, not one single cell from a living organism - but they did find rye bread particles. How does a non-corrupt lab find human DNA from rye bread? It was the report from the independent experts that exonerated them, that proved that there was no way the crime could have happened as imagined by the prosecutor. </p>
<p>The coroner originally placed the time of death at around 9pm. Rudy Guede was seen on video, twice, at around 8:30 pm near the apartment. Meredith Kercher is seen on video a little before 9:00 walking toward the apartment. There is an attempted phone call to Meredith Kercher’s mother at 8:56 pm but the phone is suddenly disconnected. A phone call is made around 10 pm, using Meredith Kercher’s phone, from a back street 1/2 mile away from the apartment. The phone is found in that location, tossed into a garden, with Rudy Guede’s DNA on it. </p>
<p>Why was all this evidence changed before bringing this to trial? Because none of it fit the prosecutor’s scenario. And the original conviction was thrown out by the appeals court because the independent review of the evidence showed that the prosecutor’s scenario was not just doubtful but impossible. They misjudged the political backlash of freeing an American, so they held a new trial to convict them and give a longer jail sentence. They now have 6 months to concoct another impossible scenario that places the two of them at the scene.</p>
<p>Dershowitz is clearly a brilliant legal scholar, but he is also a highly paid consultant. Asking him about legal issues is like asking Henry Kissenger about China. He is clearly supporting extradition, and the way to argue this is to ignore the science, ignore the evidence, and believe the prosecutor’s story. </p>
<p>I don’t know who is paying Dershowitz for his opinions on this. Many of the things one reads or hears about this case is from pro Knox PR, bear in mind. I don’t think anyone is paying D to contradict this. It’s his opinion on this, and he isn’t looking at the science, evidence or story. He’s looking at the legal facts, the things that are key in deciding whether the US will support a request for extradition and enforce it. </p>
<p>The Italian process is not the same as the US one. There has never been doubt in any of this that Guede is guilty. He’s serving time for it. The question is whether Knox and Sollecito are also involved. I am shocked that a murder verdict has come out of this, yes, but I tend not to support these things without an extraordinary amount of proof even in US cases. But that those two are lying, absolutely. The footprint in question–and I’ve seen it on the mat, is a bare foot print, clear as can be, can’t mistake it, does not match Guede at all–his all are with his shoes, and tends toward Sollecito. It’s not an exact match, but within the margins to be an acceptable one, and it’s the only evidence I have seen that points to him being in that apt during that time. To me, the case against S is particularly weak.</p>
<p>IMO, and this here is totally just my own opinion, I think the two of them should be convicted of whatever charges there could be for lying repeatedly about things and impeding the investigation, as they have certainly done so, but I don’t support the murder conviction. The trial, yes, it does meet the standards, for bringing up charges, and that is not just my opinions or the Italians’, but I don’t see enough proof to so put away anyone on such serious charges. They should probably do a few more years in jail—Guede’s due to come out this year or next already, and the two, K and S have already done some time, and then everyone could call it even. I doubt Knox is going to come willing back to Italy, and might just fly the coop, and the same with S, passport taken or not. This has cost the Italians an enormous fortune already,and promises to be even more as both K and S will fight this all the way up, and the publicity isn’t helping Italy as country, its rep, as study abroad cite, tourism for young people, etc, perticularly Peralgia where all of this happened. Some sort of deal should be struck, and if the Italians had any sense about this, they would do so with Sollecito. In his case, there is very little evidence, and his support of Knox which came after first with no pressure at all denying she was with him at all that night has morphed to pretty much insisting she could not have left long enough to do this. I don’t think he knows what the heck happened that night. </p>
<p>But do bear in mind, if this had happened in the US, with Knox first accusing one AA man who was innocent, and then another getting brought into the mix, fast tracked alone in trial and now sitting in jail serving a sentence, with scene with no reasonable explanation, there would be screams of a different sort. The other thing is, the guy who definitely was on the scene, with his DNA indisputably on the victim has served a lot of his sentence already, and will out very soon. </p>
<p>Consolation, the knife is not eliminated as the murder weapon. I, frankly, do not think there is enough evidence to say that particular knife was the murder weapon, just because it matches the wound marks and “could” be the murder weapon. A problem with the knife is that it has Kercher’s DNA on it and it was in Sollecito’s apartment where Kercher never was. Sollecito when asked about it said that Kercher had been at his apartment and prepared food there, something refuted by Knox, and then S has agreed that it never happened. Both K and S have maddeningly just come up with explanations blatantly lies when asked about many things. Doesn’t mean that they killed Kercher, I agree, but man, why the lies at every little thing, especially from the very beginning?</p>
<p>I am not saying Knox and Sollecito did or did not do anything. I find it very difficult to even thing about what supposedly happened here, and I don’t think it hangs together,mainly because the three of the, Guede, Knox and Sollecito truly seem not to know each other much or even at all in the case of G and S, and the idea that they colluded in this makes no sense at all. But were they there? Were they somehow involved? There are some possible scenarios, but I don’t agree with the verdict, no. But the Knox PR machine is spewing lies. The problem is that they feel they have to address every bit of this, when I don’t believe they know what the story. </p>
<p>Yes, I’d throw the two of them in jail for another couple of years and call it even, for all of their lies, accusations and stories, but force the Italians who have not been a whole lot better in many reespects to eat some crow on this too, which they are certainly being fed. </p>
<p>So you really believe someone should serve more than 4 years because she broke during the 8 hour, overnight interrogation? It was the interrogators that told Amanda Knox that they had the evidence to convict Lumumba. All she had to do sign a document that said she let him into the apartment, had amnesia about the fact she had let him in, then she could go back to her family. For 45 1/2 of her 46 hour interrogation she implicated no one. A few hours after signing that “confession” she recanted it. How many years is fair for a prison sentence for signing a confession under those conditions?</p>
<p>One thing prosecutors rely on in getting convictions is a prosecutorial bias, the idea that someone arrested must be a bad person, so the only question is how bad. People will start imagining they can spot signs of guilt in how they look, and talk, and walk, and do their hair. This bias has been at play for 6 years. Most people have an innate sense to root for the prosecutor to win, when really we should be rooting for the correct results of the justice system. That is where Occam’s razor comes into play, along with forensic science.</p>
<p>What forensic science in this case has proven beyond a reasonable doubt:
Meredith Kercher was killed no later than 9:30 pm.
Rudy Guede raped, beat, and stabbed Meredith Kercher.
No one else was present in the room during the rape and murder.
The knife from the first trial could not have been the murder weapon.</p>
<p>Oh, and that bloody bathmat footprint belonged to Rudy Guede. Please review your sources. The footprint left with a mixture of blood and water on an absorbent mat was slightly bigger than Rudy Guede’s foot but slightly smaller than Raffaele’s foot. Think about it.</p>
<p>Haven’t they served enough time for lying? What if they were drinking/high that night?</p>
<p>No. I think Knox should sue the police for the interrogation abuse that she accuses them of doing. What she says occurred could not have, by the way. Not at all. However, there may have been abuses, and she should go after them about them, especially since one of them got her convicted of slander, false accusation, etc, and getting sued by the person she falsely implecated. He got restitution from the police, by the way, and Knox hasn’t paid yet The lies did not start or end with the period of time when knox claims she was harassed and abused. That testimony and confession has been deemed inadmissable for the murder accusation, due to the fact she had no attorney when questioned and having written and signed that version of the night. It isn’t even in there as evidence except as the false accusation conviction that Knox herself brings into the picture. Again, something that the Knox PR has misconstrued. </p>
<p>The odd thing about all of this is that Guede had not directly implicated Knox or Sollecito until after the fact when all of the evidence has been made public. If the two of them had been in on it with him, he would have certainly blamed both or at least one of them. Usually when these things happen, a group venture, everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else. That’s why I don’t think there was collusion here other than Sollecito lying for Knox perhaps, but no here is blaming the others. </p>
<p>The Kerchers have expressed a number of times that they wish that Guede would talk about what happened that night. Though by now, with so much publicity and so much info out there, and the fact that he too lied about so many things (directly proven), that who could say what Guede, or anyone would say is the truth by now? which story does one want to pick? </p>
<p>Well, who had a motive to kill that girl? These things are not usually just random. Sex games gone wrong seems unlikely. </p>
<p>Without discussing guilt if I were her I’d be looking for a country with no extradition to Italy. Argentina??</p>
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<p>Of course it can! Read about the West Memphis Three case if you don’t believe that interrogation techniques can result in a false confession.</p>
<p>The problem is that the long interrogation story doesn’t work when you sit there and take it one charge by charge. The attorneys have not filed complaints about this, nothing. There are avenues that could be taken for this and they are not. I have no doubt interrogations can break people, but the time line doesn’t work for Knox. She did not produce a statement 43 hours after questioning. She produced one less than 2.1/2 hours later. </p>
<p>There are too many top legal folks who won’t say this has been a kangaroo trial. The fact of the matter is that the case right now is at the guilty level in the Italian court system. THere will be another round, and if that comes out guilty too, and that is the expectation, as was the expectation for this round, then there will be a formal request to extradite Knox to Italy, and from what I have read, the US will likely have to comply despite the sentiments against it. It will go through legal chanels, yes. </p>
<p>If Knox wants to become a fuguitive from the US, Italy and other countries with extradition relationships with Italy, then that is her choice, but that’s going to be a tough go too. </p>
<p>I hurt for her family as well as the Kerchers and Sollecitos. This is a terrible tragedy with no good answers. At t his point, no story is going to be believable. It would be so much neater, cleaner and satisfying to just go with the story that only Guedes did it all. </p>
<p>At this point, seriously, if one wants to put an end to all of this, what solution does anyone have? Ignore the Italian court verdicts? Retry the case in a US court and media and tell them they have a kangaroo court? What really is the solution here? What would we do if these were our children, as Knox could easily be, a student studying abroad, in trouble?</p>
<p>It is also significant to note that Rafaelle is in the same boat as Amanda. So one can’t really say it is all about crucifying the American. Whatever you believe about the Italian justice system, it is being applied equally to their own citizen. And this is a kid who most likely has every advantage available in fighting this case. He is educated and his father is a prominent surgeon with resources to help him. Now that is looks like he is going to face substantial jail time, lets see if anymore information comes out. Would not surprise me at all if the story changes yet again. I think he may have laid the ground work for turning the tables on Amanda in his most recent statement. He said “this was always all about Amanda, I don’t even understand why I am involved.”</p>
<p>The problem with your “oh, just serve a few MORE years in prison for a crime you didn’t commit and we’ll call it even because you lied about stuff” scenario is that they want to convict her of the actual murder and put her away for 20+ years.</p>
<p>If I was the Sec of State and got an extradition request, I would tell the Italians to go to h*ll.</p>