Those of you who are (or know) lawyers, what is your opinion on the profession?

Parent Cafe
41

<p>I am a very happy corporate lawyer. I have always been involved in transactional practice areas like mergers and acquisitions, securities, investment management and private equity. Yes, those are areas that typically require a whole lot of hours working, and that typically require some great sacrificies that go along with those hours. I went in with my eyes open and have never been surprised by what was required of me (though I have indeed been tired and weary at times).</p>

<p>I have worked in “biglaw” firms in NYC and I have worked in Fortune 100 companies. Over the years, I have also been very involved with on campus (law school) recruiting, mentoring young lawyers and working with college students who are considering law school. I actually frequent the Law board here at CC with some regularity in the hope that my additions to the discussion there might enable a college student or two who is sees dollar signs or a lifetime of erudite debate over cutting edge constitutional law issues to understand what to expect in the day-to-day practice of law. </p>

<p>To me, having your eyes open means understanding that large salaries typically mean large responsibilities, pressures and sacrifices. It means understanding that, as another poster mentioned, law is a crowded profession, and not everyone who wants a job making big bucks will find one, even if one’s massive amount of law school loans demands that one take a job making big bucks. It also means understanding that there is some tough, and might I say, boring, work, such as document review and discovery and billing, that every lawyer may face from time to time (some more frequently than others). </p>

<p>Practicing law can provide an interesting, ever-changing and challenging career. I work with incredibly smart and dedicated people, and I am fortunate to be able to discuss ideas and share insights with them. I am thankful for my education and my profession, and the rewards of my hard work have enabled me to live a much easier and more comfortable life than my parents and my grandparents lived before me. If I had it to do all over again, I wouldn’t change a thing.</p>

42

<p>i’m going to bring up again a question of broetchen’s: “It helps, a lot, if you love to read, love to write, love to analyze, love to argue (in the best sense of the word).” are there any other careers for people who might fit this description, who don’t want to go into law?</p>

43

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, when I was talking about the “exception” and not the “rule,” I wasn’t trying to distinguish myself from other criminal defense lawyers, but rather to distinguish these particular cases from many of my other cases. (Believe me, I have lots of clients who are currently enjoying free room and board at not-so-little but usually out-of-the-way joints all over the country.) And in my experience, most criminal defense lawyers do experience significant successes from time to time, even if they’re not the off-of-Death-Row or DNA-exoneration sort of success. There are all kinds of different ways that, as a criminal defense lawyer, one can make a big difference in a client’s life.</p>

44

<p>Edit: deleted post-- too much personal info. :-)</p>

<p>General agreement w/epistrophy!</p>

45

<p>Thanks, mdhopeful for bring my point back up.
I still am waiting for someone to address this:
If one has the aptitude for law school, what other areas/professions should one be looking, as well?</p>

46

<p>Fields where writing ability is important. Maybe sales (industry- not retail), if you have that part of the aptitude. Being a college counselor at a top prep school where you deal with difficult parents and schmooze college adcoms!</p>

47

<p>

</p>

<p>Two fields that seem to overlap quite a bit with law - in terms of interests and abilities (and folks making midcareer changes in both directions) - are journalism and education. Oh, and here’s another: writer of best-selling novels (Grisham, Turow, et al.).</p>

48

<p>Agree w/the journalism & education (I know lawyers who’ve gone into both).</p>

<p>I’ve also met people in business who engage in somewhat ‘lawyer-like’ work – reading and reviewing contracts, negotiating w/various parties. Often they’ll say to me: “I was going to go to law school but never did…” </p>

<p>One note—generally speaking, journalists make tons less $ than lawyers (I speak from experience!).</p>

49

<p>Alternatives to law? In my experience, people who write well have a built in advantage in a business setting. Having good interpersonal and persuasive skills also helps a great deal.
In what line of work? Take your pick. Line management, human resources, marketing, sales, corporate communications. You don’t need a business major for these jobs. Just start out at the bottom and your skills will help you work your way up.
I started out as a temp job analyst. Interviewed folks and wrote job descriptions. Great job. Learned about the business and honed my writing and interviewing skills. Since then, I’ve had many roles in HR, both as an employee and an independent. IMO, it’s a great place to be and the reputation of the function is beginning to improve. Those with a facility for numbers can find a place in Compensation or Benefits. Just one area to keep in mind…</p>

50

<p>I work as an engineering consultant (with an expertise in motor vehicle accident reconstruction and injury biomechanics), with most of my work related to litigation. I have worked as an expert witness for a large number of trial lawyers (mostly for defendants), for over 15 years. Of the trial lawyers with whom I have worked, the ones who seem to have the most enjoyable jobs (at least from my perspective) have been the Assistant US Attorneys.</p>

<p>Most trial lawyers not only have to balance billable hours but also are at the mercy of their clients, in terms of ultimate decisions (e.g. when to settle a case, when to continue to trial, whether to hire experts, etc.). I have frequently seen trial attorneys get frustrated when they knew they had winnable cases but had to settle a case because the client (insurance company or other company who is paying the bills) decided somewhat arbitrarily that the case was not worth trying in court. The Assistant US Attorneys, on the other hand, get to make most of their own decisions, basically because their “client” (the US government) is essentially infinitely wealthy. The Assistant US Attorneys I have worked with also have many fewer underlings (lawyers who work at lower billing rates and support them on their cases), so they can / must review many of the case materials personally, rather than having to spend their time of drumming up new business.</p>

51

<p>pafather (or anyone else who can chime in) - just curious… what is the career path for someone interested in Assistant US Attorneys career? Can you describe what kinds of jobs/clerkships are needed, and how one goes about rising the ladder. Also, any guesstimate on salary ranges 5 years out, 10 years out, etc.</p>

52

<p>I’d echo pafather’s thought and add that other gov’t attorneys have similar benefits (challenging, substantive work right out of the gate, but livable hours, no billable or rainmaking requirements) – state attorneys general, DOJ, etc.</p>

53

<p>Here is a link to the Department of Justice pay scales for attorneys - </p>

<p>[USDOJ:</a> OARM: Salaries, Promotions, and Benefits](<a href=“http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/hp/hpsalary.htm]USDOJ:”>http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/hp/hpsalary.htm)</p>

54

<p>As for the “career path” to becoming an Asst. United State Attorney, these tend to be highly sought (and hence very competitive) positions, particularly in major metropolitan areas. While there’s no one route to obtaining such a job, you certainly have a leg up if you went to a major law school and then clerked for a federal appellate or district court judge. (Of course, these things would likely give one a leg up for many types of law jobs, but a federal clerkship can be particularly helpful if you’re seeking a position with an office such as this, where the lawyers practice in federal court court on a daily basis.) And if you happen to be have interned at an office while still in law school, either part-time during the school year or full-time during the summer, so much the better.</p>

<p>Other routes that I’ve seen people take to becoming federal prosecutors are (1) spending a year or two (or more) in the litigation department of a major law firm, or (2) spending some time as a prosecutor in the state court system.</p>

55

<p>p.s. to my last post:</p>

<p>U.S. Attorney’s Offices - or the ones I’m familiar with, anyway - have two different divisions, civil and criminal. I was focusing on the criminal division, whose lawyers prosecute federal crimes, as those are the lawyers I encounter in my own practice, when I’m representing defendants in federal criminal cases. </p>

<p>I’m assuming that pafather has mainly (solely?) worked with AUSA’s who work in the civil division. These lawyers represent the United States in many different kinds of civil cases in which the federal government is a party.</p>

56

<p>Thanks epistrophy - my niece’s husband is an AUSA in the Houston area. We met him after he’d graduated law school, and while I suspected he is successful (he has indeed done all the prerequisites you have mentioned), I didn’t know about the competitiveness of the field. I wonder if one’s willingness to move around the country to take advantage of openings also is helpful for this kind of career… He has worked in two different states and within one of those districts, two different cities.</p>

57

<p>Path to AUSA – the easiest path is through a top 10 law school, a federal clerkship, and possibly some experience at a vault ranked firm. To get into the US Attys office in a major metro area – it helps to have clerked for a judge in that same area and/or working for one of the top firms. There are tons of people who submit apps, but a phone call from someone who knows someone significant in the US Attys office can often get you an interview. The ability to move around is incredibly helpful, as it is easier to get into certain office than others. Thus, if you’re willing to move to the midwest or mountain states, where there are fewer top 10 law school grads, get into the office there and do well, it is often possible to transfer to your metro area of choice. But you do have to be careful about moving around as the types of cases do vary by office. If your interest in criminal law stems from white collar/financial fraud, you may not have any of that work in a US Attys office located in a more rural area where there are no corporations.</p>

58

<p>I’ve also seen a few former federal criminal investigators become AUSAs. Most AUSAs are solid attorneys. Some are outstanding and at least one I knew well is now a federal magistrate.</p>

<p>Generally your typical AUSA is a good trial attorney. They get a lot of practice.</p>

59

<p>"Here is a link to the Department of Justice pay scales for attorneys - </p>

<p>USDOJ: OARM: Salaries, Promotions, and Benefits"</p>

<p>My just graduated child with a BA and no law database skills, will be making more than this data linked, working as a paralegal/law clerk/slave for a top US Assistant Prosecuting Attorney. My child wants to work for a year before starting law school. Hired 6 months ago to start work in July, and before even starting, received a 25% raise. (Don’t you think you should call and make sure the job is still available?) I think there are more current payscales.</p>

<p>This U.S. Assistant Attorney, who except for a brief stint as in-house counsel, has had this position his whole career. Jokingly, he says his main role is to talk all the employees, like my child, out of the career of law.</p>

<p>It is my understanding that US Assistant Attorney is an elected position, while the Main US Attorney is a political appointment. Considering the seven? firings this administration, that seems an important consideration.</p>

<p>This US Assistant Federal Attorney only prosecutes white collar crime. I don’t know if that is the case for all in his position, a seniority privilege, skill related, etc.</p>

<p>While I acknowledge all the negatives stated earlier in this thread, I think law school can be an avenue to many things. A big concern is the debt you will acquire to pay for law school. If you don’t want to work long hours in big law to repay debt or are self pay, I would reconsider.</p>

<p>Big things, good and bad, that I have seen accomplished in my life time have been accomplished by attorneys. In my opinion, this gives them a freedom, a non-attorney doesn’t have.</p>

60

<p>There is a link on the page that I linked that has PDF files that supposedly also give the locality pay - on top of the steps. I haven’t actually looked at the details in that link. </p>

<p>Sunny - are you thinking of the States Attorney office or DA’s office - they can be elected or appointed.</p>