Malcolm Gladwell calls it EICD
Elite
Institution
Cognitive
Disorder
His book “David and Goliath” and his TED talk are great resources for those looking to learn more about his research and findings including relative deprivation.
It’s monkey13 who mentioned casting not me but sure, agree on the worms.
You know, who is top dog can change drastically over 4 years. Some early darlings flame out. Sleeper talent can also come out if nowhere. Excellent instructors do not care where the magic comes from, they just want to see it and nurture it whenever it shows up.
I think it all depends on what your child wants or needs from their college experience. Mine was too young and inexperienced to want a school that would slap her upside the head from the get go. She did not want to be a small fish in a large pond. She knew better than I did that a small program where she would shine for 4 years was what she desired. She knew that reality was eventually going to come around and she would be pounding the pavement and getting rejection every step of the way, she just didn’t want that in college. To each his own. Listen to your kid. It was really hard for me. I wanted her at one of those top tier schools but purely for my own benefit not hers. Glad she is smarter than her mother. <3
“Malcolm Gladwell - EICD” - I’ve seen this, and he makes many interesting points. But I’m not certain it applies in the theater world- which is SO subjective - there simply is NO way to guarantee success. (or failure for that matter). There are a million anecdotes of being in the right place at the right time- girl from my town sang at a talent contest at the mall and was cast as a Christine for Phantom. (she was attending a well regarded school at the time - but it had nothing to do with that “break”)
The truth of it is we all want to have the child who is chosen for al the very top programs, with a full scholarship, can survive the harsh real world of those schools, have the leads in shows that they deserve and get professional credentials during the summer. We also want them to build lasting, sincere friendships, find enrichment in the extracurriculars and challenging academic areas, stay healthy, and thank us for all we’ve done because we have been practically perfect in every way.
Only a handful of us will experience that. The rest of us will struggle with our child’s not measuring up to much of this. ( If I have described your child above, please do not raise your hand. The rest of us will appreciate it at this time.)
Like @bisouu said, know your kid, accept what they want but I would add, don’t go bankrupt.
I like that assessment @mtmcmt! I have trouble sleeping at least once a week worrying about one of those things :-??
@mtmcmt, you can choose not to struggle with frustration over not having it all and take your victories where you find them. You just need to be sure your benchmarks are realistic.
I’d never ever buy into this statement with respect to the MT college world so I encourage all to cut yourself slack on this one immediately. It reflects lack of experience with how things actually work in college MT programs, including the fact that the bulk of merit money handed out in MT programs is academic merit money and has nothing whatsoever to do with talent. It also doesn’t take into consideration the effort that a school may make to recruit certain types to balance out a program, regardless of relative talent. This statement may reflect how the music world works (that I cannot speak to) but this is simply incorrect for MT. The person in MT, is the instrument and there are many reasons why at any given moment, they may be asked to play or to take a back seat:
@mtmcmt … oh, I don’t know about all that. My daughter was not accepted at an elite MT school … honestly, she didn’t apply to schools like CMU. What I wanted was for her to be at a place that she could grow as an artist and be happy.
I don’t struggle that my kid isn’t at a top school. I don’t struggle with the parts my daughter gets - or doesn’t get. I don’t struggle with my daughter “not measuring up” - up to what exactly? She is who she is and she’ll find her way … whether it be on stage in NYC or in a community theatre in Small Town USA - I want her to be happy and have HER version of success. Maybe that’s with a Tony in her hand - but maybe that’s with running a small theatre company in some podunk town that no one has ever heard of before. I don’t know what her exactly path will be yet - but I don’t struggle with any of it.
I think what @mtmcmt is kinda getting at is we, as parents are so used to our MT kid being a performer and in theatre and it’s such a part of their life as well as ours (or we wouldn’t even read CC really) that we want it to continue and for our kids to “reach success” in this field. Now I know everyone’s definition of siccess is different but a majority of our kids WANT to perform. They’ve been doing it forever & for some it’s all they know or have interest in. They want to get paid to do it. They want it to be their JOB. It might not work out that way for most but that’s the goal I would think. Everyone wants their kid to have a great college experience & you do want your kid to get parts in shows and show their talent. You just have to be ready for the day your kid tells you they don’t want to do it anymore , in case this happens. It would make me so sad if my D didn’t perform anymore…but I know this may occur and I’ll have to accept it.
@KaMaMom - I admire your Zen, I really do. I would be worried about D’s college journey no matter what she was majoring in, but that is my nature.
@KaMaMom @halflokum I was being a tiny bit sarcastic in my post. But I do believe we secretly wish our children were all that. Who wouldn’t? I mean, is there anything in that description that is bad? Is there anything there you wouldn’t want for your child? But total fantasy for the vast majority.
I don’t struggle with my D being far short of that mark for many reasons, for one, I never expected to have that.
If she has a career dream, I’d love for her to have it filled. The true struggle is that I have to help her balance what is possible with what is reality. What that means is that life choices are hard work. My point was (sort of) that it would be lovely if we were equipped with everything we need so that things fall into place in accordance with our desires and the effort we put out. Since they rarely do, we are going to have a few compromises and a lot of “hope it works out”.
KaMaMom says “whether it be on stage in NYC or in a community theatre in Small Town USA - I want her to be happy and have HER version of success. Maybe that’s with a Tony in her hand - but maybe that’s with running a small theatre company in some podunk town that no one has ever heard of before. I don’t know what her exactly path will be yet - but I don’t struggle with any of it.”
True but I know my daughter has the Tony (plural) and the NYC stage in her dreams. That’s her version of success. If her dream today were really a small theater company in a podunk town we wouldn’t be having these conversations. D may be quite happy there someday but it’s not her dream. That’s what makes this difficult.
^^^ great post @mtmcmt. Sounds like you have excellent perspective. 
I dare say the “dream” dials down quickly in college. Most of these kids go from getting the leads all the time in HS to feeling that just getting cast in even the smallest role in college (unless the kid goes to a school with a VERY small program and lots of opportunity) is something to celebrate. I mean, yeah, every kid dreams of Broadway, but the deeper they get into this the more reality and the utterly humongous amount of competition hits them in the face. And the lifestyle sacrifices they have to make… it’s not pretty. A stage in a community theater in Small Town USA really might be the happiest place to end up. But only they can come to that conclusion, not us.
That’s one great thing about some of the smaller programs that my D has run into & that’s the opportunity to perform from the get go is high. A lot of times the freshmen can try out for shows after first semester & there are a lot of opportunities . It doesn’t necessarily mean she would get all the leads or anything it just means she is able to audition early, while in some programs that’s not the case.
What are some of the smaller programs you are talking about @theaterwork ?
My daughter arrived on campus on a Wednesday. Auditioned for the first round of shows on Friday. And the cast list was posted on Monday - first day of freshmen year. Rehearsals started Tuesday … and she was on stage within 3 weeks I think.
While I’m sure she would’ve made the best of wherever she ended up - she really is in the best place for her.
I will say though that I agree with @Monkey13 that though the immediate gratification may not be as high, it is far better in the long run for serious MT kids to go to a school where they are NOT “the best.” Many of these kids are coming from that exact situation. Most have been “the best” in their smaller ponds for years, and it is time to step up and have more of a challenge if they really want to grow as an artist.
@theaterwork, just a clarification. It is not just the smaller programs where freshmen can audition and get cast. At Ithaca, for example, the freshmen MUST audition…it is mandatory. It is a school by school choice, and I think it is unrelated to the size/reputation of the program. Some schools think freshmen are going to be too overwhelmed to be in a show first semester or freshmen year - others think it is an integral part of the training and throw them right in. It’s a philosophical thing. And probably no right answer, or at least no right answer for everyone.
Just keep in mind that getting cast in college is not the goal.
Oh I know it’s not the goal to be cast @monkey13 I just know my D would enjoy being ensemble in shows in college early on simply because now she attends an arts high school & she gets a lot of performance opportunities . Not just shows but one acts, several individual as well as group showcases each year, she is required to sing as part of a choir, etc. it’s really all school year and she is quite used to it. She would miss that in college I think if she had to wait till junior year. Although she would still have her summers like she does now to do theatre etc. but that will indeed get sucked up in working a job which may not be performance related.
That great about Ithaca. My D isn’t applying there so I don’t know anything about their policies. I just know several of the more well known programs don’t let freshmen audition for shows. I believe Point Park is one? Seems like a lot of times freshmen tech shows which is ok as that is required everywhere it seems. I think my D would prefer at least being given the opportunity to audition and then if not cast , teching etc. I do know she does not enjoy tech. Lol
@Calliene I’m not implying my D is always cast and is the best etc. she’s fully aware that she will have great competition in college regardless of school. Plus having attended her high school she is not coming out of a regular high school that there was little in the way of competition for parts.
@rittlette I’m referring to schools on our list that may be lesser known programs not mentioned much in this forum. You can msg me and I’ll give you a list of some of them. Most allow earlier auditioning etc.
just to note , I do agree with waiting till later in freshmen year to audition as obviously your kid is just getting adjusted to living on their own etc so it’s nice to have a breather period.
@KaMaMom that’s cool your D was cast so soon and adjusted! Baptism by fire works too. My D might just be ok with that. Less time to dwell on being homesick!
Does one grow as an artist by watching others get the major parts?