“This program is only for those who have decided and know for sure that acting is your career.”
I heard similar statements from many programs during last year’s audition trail.
At D’s program, this discussion is continued at semester meetings with the program head.
With the intensity of most BFA programs, one really does want to make sure (as sure as one can be, anyway) that full immersion into this field is absolutely desired for the next years. Does that mean that you can’t change your mind at some point in your life? Of course not. We all know that many or even most people do. However, you really do have to know that acting is what you want to do now and most likely in the foreseeable future-- that it is your career, which doesn’t only mean something far off in the future, but now. Many auditioners have already viewed theatre as their career (along with, or, in some cases, probably even above, academics) for years, like my D has.
Yeah, I agree that that’s a perfectly valid (and helpful) point for a conservatory to make. It’s NOT saying “Our program is only for REAL actors, not wannabes!” or anything like that. It’s simply saying “Our program is a conservatory - it’s an intensive program which focuses almost ENTIRELY on acting training, which means limited opportunities to study other subjects. So if you want a college experience where you can study acting while also exploring lots of other subjects in-depth, or if you want to double major, then this program is not a good fit for you.” It’s not being insulting or anything, it’s just making an important point about this type of program.
On the question of value-for-money: one way this issue hits home for me is regarding summer pre-college programs. They do sound wonderful, and if money were no object, I would definitely have my daughter apply to them! But they’re $3000 to $5000, and if that money goes to a pre-college summer program, then that’s money that WON’T be available for college, which we’re continuing to save up for. So, reluctantly, I’m thinking we won’t do that, but then i worry that she’ll be at a disadvantage by not doing one.
(I do already spend $3,000-$4,000 per year on her private singing lessons, which I feel are important, and she goes to a performing arts high school and is getting great acting training there. So she IS getting training. But I think we’ll have to pass on the summer programs - but I feel guilty about it!)
Another “money” question I think about regarding colleges: we live in Brooklyn, NY. So if she goes to college in NYC, she can commute, which will save a lot of money. But then I feel bad that she might be missing out by not having the experience of living away from home at college. But THEN I think, is that dorm experience worth having to take out big student loans? Or is it better to commute and graduate debt-free?
So yeah, there are tradeoffs no matter what you do! (Unless you’re wealthy enough to afford any college and any program with no loans, which must be nice!!!)
@actor parent I, too thought that summer programs were $$$$$ BUT, we were able to do the only one she was interested in and that was CAP21. She got a lot out of that and could likely be accepted there for school if she wants. That’s not the case with all summer programs but it worked well for us. We live in commuting distance, too. She is considering that and already knows the quality of the program so the risk is negligible. So for us the summer program was worth it. I also wanted to make sure she really could stand a conservatory program and was in it for more than very high end and impressive facilities since CAP is old school, to say the least!
The one thing I thought was really valuable about the pre-college programs, if you pick the right one(s), is that your child can find out if they want that kind of intensive, arts-based training in college or if they’d prefer a BA-type program with other areas of study mixed in. After spending six weeks at CMU, my daughter knew that she was up for the kind of rigorous, arts-only schedule a BFA program requires.
I so agree! In our D’s case, MPulse helped her realize she really wanted a broader education during 4 years of college, so her list flipped to 3 BAs (Northwestern, Yale then Brown) topping her list. So far post-college her professional life is all-theatre-all-the-time, which is just as she’d hoped, so she is very glad she allowed herself a chance to delve into other subjects before diving into a steady diet of theatre.
What people want/need from college is very individual, and I think summer programs can really help kids clarify their priorities.
I encourage you @actorparent to do your own research into college summer programs that are perhaps a bit less expensive but still offer training & a college experience on a college campus. I am looking into them now with my D who’s a junior. I want her to get an on campus living experience. For instance Rider University has a summer MT program I think it’s about $ 1800. Still a lot but it’s 2 weeks & that includes room & board. Look at the college websites of the schools your child is interested in to see if they offer something. Just a thought . I don’t think a summer program is essential & I don’t think you should fret about it if isnt do-able. I just really need my D to get away from home for a time before senior year & doing some MT at the same time is an added benefit. My D attends an arts high school too
This has been a really interesting thread and I find myself agreeing with just about EVERYTHING! Have done much soul searching about all the ramifications/value of BFA Mt degrees vs whether a broader education is more crucial to being a complex performer, whether degree programs have sprouted merely as cash cows for many the institutions which house them, and whether to scrape the bottom of the money barrel to pay for a summer program, when we really shouldn’t have. And my daughter has mulled over many of these things as well.
It was, though, the crazy-expensive summer program which she loved which firmed up for her what she had spent a year fretting over: that although she is really, really interested in other academic areas and wishes there were more schools where some kind of BFA/BA hybrid could take place, and is mad that few of them offer the semester abroad which she craves, ultimately all of her aspirations and commitment – and, very important – the people she wanted to be around - fellow students and faculty, were dyed-in-wool theater people, particularly those of the singing and dancing variety. She has included a few liberal arts schools (strong in theater and dance, but BA) in the 12 she’s applied to, but as the months of senior year have flown by, she has further affirmed that although it is still a struggle to say goodbye (for now) to the other things she’d like to study, the BFA is who she is. At this point there is only one “normal” school that might really threaten her top BFA picks, if she is beyond lucky to have that choice.
And this is from a kid who has pretty relentlessly been on this career path since age 10 or so. And still the indecision.
@rampions I totally get the indecision. My D is only a junior but next year is on the horizon…oh yikes it’s already 2016! So… She is the same as your kid probably…theater since 3rd grade and singing since kindergarten really if you count church. She has done little but theater & performing since then. A stint in volleyball & some tennis but nothing else really stuck. I figured by middle school that MT was her future. Fast forward to her attending an arts high school & nothing has really changed BUT now she’s seeing that decisions need to be made & lists need to start & the indecision is mounting. So as we make a list of summer programs on college campuses to attend I am hoping it will help her make some choices. Plus she’s going to be auditioning for some of those summer program & at SETC so I hope thru these things it will help her decide what path she wants to pursue or at least help a bit. I know we need to guide her & help her decide but ultimately it’s her decision. She is famously horrible at decision making & a very indecisive kid a lot of the time so the next year is going to be crazy with lots of tears a long the way. My D is and has always been defined by her singing ability & she often says “that’s all I’m good at is MT” & that is unnerving to me since I know this isn’t true. Sigh…guess it’s good I only have 1 kid…
Thanks everyone for the feedback on pre-college programs! It really does sound worthwhile, so maybe we WILL go for it. @mtmcmt, CAP21 is the one we were thinking of, so very glad to hear your D loved it!
@actorparent Yes, when I first brought her downtown and saw the older (reminiscent to my dancing days) studio for the audition, I thought,“ok, we’ll really see if she can hack the all work no flash atmosphere”. She totally embraced it and thought every class was so worthwhile. She did not tack on the optional week as she had another commitment.
I was impressed by her attitude.
When I was balking at the cost of pre-college summer programs my SIL, who was a high school college counselor for 30 years, said “they seem expensive until you compare that to the cost of a mid-semester dropout or college transfer”. In retrospect I think she was very right.
I just read through this thread and most didn’t stay on topic. How important is cost when building a college list for Performance majors?
Let’s be clear, the more merit aid one gets, the more that school wants that student. The higher that student is ranked within their program, the better opportunities that student will experience. With better experiences comes more confidence. And with more confidence the opportunities post graduation should be more solid.
I would keep that in mind when weighing a “brand” school where your kid will be in the bottom half of the program and your cost in dollars will be high. Many times smart money is to pay less and get more.
Good point, @ClarinetDad16. Our family came to exactly this conclusion when our VP kid got offers from two top schools with no scholarship and a tier 2 school with decent scholarship. We figured that if the very expensive top schools gave her zero, then that was an indication of how they might treat her over four years of coaching and casting. Turning down the top school offers was painful at the time, but it was the right thing to do. I’ll push for the same decision again for my MT kid, if it comes to it. I don’t want to be paying full price while top-pick students get all the scholarship money. You can bet all those top-pick low-pay students will get all the roles,too. I’d rather send my kid to a school where he is first choice and the schools wants him enough to pick up part of the bill.
I think a BFA in MT is different than regular college, @ClarinetDad16. I know plenty of kids (my D included) who did not want to be “the best” or in “the top” of her class/program. She wanted to be at a school where there were lots of kids better than her. A place where she could strive to get better and learn from others. I think for some people there might be a tendency to rest on their laurels if they are at the top and have nothing to prove/strive for. If you are talking ONLY about money, sure, go for the place that gives you the most. But in the MT world, the college that gives your kid the most may not be the best place for them as far as training and connections. It’s a balancing act, and a personal decision for the student and the family. The answer will be different for everyone.
And @claire74, I don’t know of any schools who cast/coach based on how much scholarship money a student gets. It is in the school’s best interest to train everyone who passes through their doors to the best of their ability. And college casting is a whole 'nother bag of worms…first, college casting doesn’t always have to do with talent (nor should it). Some kids are cast in certain roles to see if they can go outside their comfort zone/as an educational experience. Some are cast so the professors can see how they work with others, or to test kids they aren’t sure about. College is the journey, the learning. College casting is not the be all/end all. College casting is, when you think about the real world for these kids, pretty meaningless. Where my D goes to school, the profs tell the kids that the fewer college shows they have on their resume when they graduate, the better. (In other words, get professional credits during the summer to bump the college credits off!) No one cares if you got the lead in West Side Story in college…they would rather see you be Villager #3 in an equity show. Getting cast in college is a great learning experience, but it is not necessary for their career, and it is not indicative of future success.
@monkey13 a performance major (which I pinpointed) comes in many flavors including MT (and others including orchestral). Is it better to learn from a great faculty AND get the great parts AND get the merit aid at a “lesser school” or pay full price at a “brand” school and get the lesser parts and watch their talented classmates with the scholarships get the experience and confidence to get to the next level?
It is all relative. The kid in the bottom quarter at an elite school may be one of the best nationwide. But with his or her relative perception at the “brand” school often times that kid either weeds themself out into another major or uses the degree for another career.
I will take the dream career over the dream school if one is not at or near the top of a studio. Merit matters.
I’m all in favor of chasing the merit aid but the majority of it has nothing to do with how much they want you artistically. And some schools dole out merit as part of an expected discounted pricing strategy. Others only tie merit to need. Others really WANT the full pay students more than those they need to discount. In short, associating merit awards as a means to determine how much you are wanted and thus how you may expect to be treated has some fairly big holes.
@clarinetdad16, I can assure you I am not confusing need with merit. And your last sentence is beyond controversial.
You can apply to a school like Pace as an example and they can shower a strong student with enough merit money to make it practically free. Then you may or may not be top dog in studio nor frankly even get admitted artistically. Your argument does not hold up.
Everyone needs to make choices right for them, but I don’t subscribe to the theory that @ClarinetDad16 is putting forward. Now, the question is moot for my kid’s school (NYU Tisch)- they don’t give out big talent or merit awards, the serious $$ is need based, and FAFSA says I don’t get any. So it’s not like she is at school with people on a talent full ride etc… BUT - with that said - I think being at a school where there are people better than you are pushes you to work harder, and I am not sure that an “easy” college career (meaning being the dept darling etc) is good preparation for a career in theater. Yes it would build confidence- which is critical to a performance career. But I think the “scrappiness” that comes from being willing/able to fight for what you want could be even more valuable.
I saw a show this summer with someone I have known for some time and who was always “big fish” in the local pool. They chose their college based on being a big fish there too- figured that would create the most performance opportunities in college- which was a priority for them. (and it has worked- kid has been consistently cast in leads since freshman year.) I was STUNNED by how little they had grown/developed since HS. YMMV
I heard a story from parent on this forum who’s kid studies with a broadway vet (tony nominee) and CMU grad. He gave a pep talk to students about NOT getting “the love” at CMU- and how it helped him to succeed.
Side question- do any of the “top” programs (however you define that) give out really big $$ in talent scholarships? None of the schools we researched were known for that.
It depends on the school. At some merit is mostly based on grades/gpa. At others, it is based entirely on the audition and at those, it is indeed an advantage to be perceived, going in, as one of the more talented kids. Not that this necessarily means good casting and I may not agree with anything as much all year as halflokum’s statement that college casting is “a can of worms.”