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<p>Are you just a really unconvincing ■■■■■, or are you actually under the impression that your posts contain any sort of decent content?</p>
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<p>See post 6…and now post 19. My mistake…I shouldn’t have said “All of you”.</p>
<p>“Time for abortion. End of story.”</p>
<p>I guess you should be glad your own mother didn’t feel that way. :(</p>
<p>If my hypothetical daughter were ever to have an abortion, she better do an awesome job of making sure I never find out.</p>
<p>she better do an awesome job of making sure I never find out.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because I’m vehemently opposed to it. Luckily my parents were too, because they were separated when I was born.</p>
<p>I got pregnant at 19 with my beautiful daughter who will be going to college this year. </p>
<p>Although I was not living with my parents at the time, telling my mother that I was pregnant was the most terrifying thing I could imagine. We did not have a very good relationship during my teen years. I didn’t expect her to yell. What I thought would happen would be that I’d see her face sink with shame, disappointment, defeat, despair, sadness. You see, my own mother got pregnant with me at 19, when she was uneducated and practically right out of foster care, and she had a miserable marriage. Nobody wants to see their child follow what they feel will be the same destructive path.</p>
<p>Although I was just a waitress making minimum wage, and the father was abusive, I knew that I wanted to keep my baby. Still, I waited until I was 12 weeks pregnant to say anything to my mother. Not because of a fear of miscarriage, but because that was my “no turning back” marker in my mind. I had a friend who had terminated a pregnancy in the 12th week, and had to undergo a 2 day process to do so. I had decided beforehand that if I were ever to consider abortion, it had to be before the 12th week.</p>
<p>As a result of my pregnancy, I was kicked out of hairs school because of my refusal to wait on a man with sores on his head. I also was fired from my job at Swiss Chalet. The father bailed. My sister, who had been my roommate at the time, moved out, leaving me with all of the bills. I applied for public assistance, but the help was not instant because I had been working and had to jump through hoops with unemployment first. I had asthma and I was living in a cheap dump with a space heater and the gas bills were atrocious. As a result, my heat was shut off in the dead of winter, and I had nothing to warm me but an electric blanket. I could not bathe. I could not cook so I had to take what little money that I had left to eat cheap food at a local restaurant. I remember being 19, laying there in that bed, with my hand on my stomach, and thinking “how will I ever fix this”?</p>
<p>When I hit my 12th week, I reached a feeling of both relief and dreaded acceptance, that I had to tell my mother. I called her over to my apartment, and told her “I think that I could be pregnant” (a lie because I already knew that I was by a home test, but I wanted to “prepare her”). Up until this point, I had never even told my mother that I had begun to have sex. I stood there in dread. And to this day, almost 20 years later, I will always be grateful that my mother that my worst fears did not come true. Although I don’t remember her exact words anymore, what I remember is that she was calm, accepting, and expressed no disappointment or shame. As I recall, I then called her the next day to tell her that I was indeed pregnant.</p>
<p>Not long after, I was able to get public assistance, which enabled me to move to an equally cheap apartment in better condition. I actually received just enough to pay the rent and security deposit, but nothing else. I actually packed my belongings into a shopping cart and tried to get on the bus, but the driver wouldn’t let me. So at 5 months pregnant with my little girl (I knew at that point that she was a girl), I pulled my cart about 20 blocks in the heat of summer to my new home. </p>
<p>What stands out to me is that in those next few months, my mom took a bus to spend time with me. She went with me to soup kitchens to eat, she browsed with me at the dollar stores of those times and the salvation army where I slowly accumulated things for my baby. Although my father and his mother said very cruel things to me about my pregnancy when told (“You are a billboard for birth control” and “You might as well throw yourself out a window”), and the father continued to put me through various forms of mental torture, it was my mother who was my lifeline.</p>
<p>I never had enough love for myself to protect myself, but I did love her. It can be found in other posts of mine, but despite this rough beginning and a bit of angst with the bio father, it was my love and care for my daughter which drove me into a college. A cousin of mine had just began community college (also had a baby at 18, although she married) and showed me that it was not that hard to get started. I remember her being 10 months old, and I was sitting there doing logic puzzles and reading a lot, and though “Well, if I’m going to do all of this, maybe I can get something for it”, and I knew that I had to take care of my daughter.</p>
<p>I went from community college, to a University Honors program, and then on to a doctorate all in record time. I married, had another child when my daughter was 8, and started my own business. Although the years have still been hard at times due to just plain bad luck, that young girl who laid in that bed saying “how will I ever fix this” seems like someone else now that I occasionally observe in the privacy of my mind. But there is my daughter-- a wonderful, loving, and moral young woman who is talented and who will go on to college this year. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Having her saved my life.</p>
<p>That all being said, the circumstances of my life were unique. My combination of a tough childhood, a love for children, and a natural ambition/intelligence made me able to deal with the road ahead for me. I made a decision early on to throw out any of my own preconceived notions on how to care for children, read books, questioned everything, tried to do tread carefully in my dealings with my daughter.</p>
<p>I’ve come to see that no matter how many times I’ve told this story to other people faced with pregnancy and indecision that some women do go on to become mothers when they never should have. </p>
<p>I know somebody who “did everything right” by marrying a military man in her 20’s and then getting pregnant, but she absolutely hates being a mother. She did it because it seemed like the thing to do because she had her “ducks in a row”. </p>
<p>I know another who got pregnant and gave the baby up for open adoption, and this was hard, but the right decision for her at the time (and that baby, I am convinced). But although she believes adoption was right, she now is torn because she is having problems with access to the child. </p>
<p>I know of a girl who got pregnant at 17, and she wanted an abortion. Her mother said “No, I’ll take care of the baby”. The girl lived with her mother like her own child’s sibling, continued to extend her childhood and lived recklessly. The girl said to me “I wanted an abortion, I feel like I am just his babysitter”. Well, her mother died suddenly last year, and now she is faced with the task of actually raising her 7 year old son.</p>
<p>I have a friend who passed out at a party when she was in college, and woke up to find one of her “friend’s” on top of her. She had the baby and wanted to give her up for adoption. But her mother told her that if she did that, that she would no longer be her daughter and that she would take the baby herself and run off with it to Canada. My friend literally snapped, and after a short bought in the mental ward, did go home with her baby. She went on to become a nurse, had 2 abortions, two more children, and lives with her mother to this day. </p>
<p>The friend whose abortion I mentioned earlier had been a foster child, left home as a teen, and went on to have 3 abortions before age 20 (yeah, I know) because she did not want kids. She was a wonderful human being who was just a co-worker and a stranger, but she gave me shelter when I was 17 and struggling to leave my abusive home. Several years later, she apparently did feel melancholy about her abortions, and said to me “I would have 3 kids right now”. Today, she is married, has two children, has a nice job in real estate, and lives in a beautiful home in Florida. </p>
<p>Of everything that I’ve accomplished and received in my life, it is my children who I most value and cherish. Imperfect me, I know that I was meant to be a mother. And I do believe the saying that if you mess up raising your kids, nothing else that you do really matters. I think the hardest thing for me is to accept that I cannot always give my children what I feel that they deserve.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what can be taken from all of these stories. But I guess my message to parents ever facing a pregnant daughter – tread carefully, protect her from your negative thoughts and emotions, because pregnant daughters are fragile. They ran through their minds a million times this scene before they finally told you, and they are terrified of losing your love and respect. Your daughter probably already knows what she wants to do, but your reaction could cause her to make a choice that is the wrong one, one that she will regret for a lifetime.</p>
<p>Brief Threadjack—</p>
<p>Emeraldkity</p>
<p>Please rethink your comment about the military couple. It is insulting and, in fact, shows an ingnorance and degradation of those who serve in the military. I commend the father for being responsible enough to find a job which provided medical coverage, a home, an education and for being willing to take responsibility for himself and his family. You seem to liken a military position to welfare or some sort of social program. It is a noble profession and your question about conception leaves me wondering if you believe that perhaps those who are in the military are “working the system.” You should be ashamed of yourself. This snide comment had nothing to do with the question at hand and was only a cheap shot against those who defend your right to trash them. </p>
<p>For the record, I was not in the military but my husband is retired and the USNA stands for United States Naval Academy. Their motto is Honor, Courage, Commitment. Pretty much sums up most military people.</p>
<p>----End threadjack</p>
<p>To the OP</p>
<p>I had prepared a different response, but after revisiting the question, I believe that I would have to give support and aid. I would probably also ask many leading questions in order to clarify the reasoning and help my daughter to be certain that she was making a well-informed decision. As parents of adults, what else can we do?</p>
<p>Take care and best wishes.</p>
<p>I understand that some of those with military connections have developed a thin skin-- sorry about that- but Im hardly ignorant of those who serve in the military- our family has many connections to the miltary of which I have written.
I also am aware of the numbers of famiies who find that the military does not provide enough support either monetary or socioemotional & the wives and kids bear the brunt of that.</p>
<p>On the subject of asking if teen parents were married before they concieved a child- how is that disrespectful? Granted they may have been planning to be married anyway-and found they were with child. </p>
<p>But unless from the outset they planned to have other supports to care for the child besides the parents( which mature adults would not do- why have a child if you were not able to raise it?), why would a young husband and father volunteer to go to war?
Particulary this war?</p>
<p>Perhaps you’ve missed this Oxford University Press publication?</p>
<p>Gifford, Brian
The Camouflaged Safety Net: The U.S. Armed Forces as Welfare State Institution</p>
<p>I stand by my opinion that teens should not become parents.</p>
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<p>My 50 year old view point tells me that no matter what decision is made (having a child, not having a child, givng up a child for adoption) the 18 year old is going to be forever changed.</p>
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<p>We all know that your chronological age, does not necessarily make you an “adult”.</p>
<p>I think that very few people have been in the “perfect position” to have a child. There are people who have children in their 20’s/ 30’s/ and 40’s who are not the most mature, fiscally responsible people who are ready to put the needs of a child before their own. Is the newly married straight out of college, spouse or both in grad school, professional school really in a more better financial situation to have a child? When the hear the word’s we’re pregnant, if they decide to have the child, they make it work whether it is having a child, not having a child or giving a child up for adoption.</p>
<p>On the other hand there are people who are 18 years old who have gone forward to raise really great kids and have themselves gone on to live great lives. There are children who are raised in single parent households that are better functioning adults than kids raised in 2 family middle class households (because mom/dad chose to stay in a hellish situation for the sake of the kids and no one is happy).</p>
<p>I know that you have to love the child that you have not the one that you wish you had and in this life you have to play the cards that you are dealt. I remember my sister’s D was 16 and pregnant and was probably the last to know that her D was pregnant (in fact it was me and my younger sister who told after my niece told us that she was pregnant who told her that if she did not tell her mother that we were going to tell her). </p>
<p>My sister was of this mind set; well if she has a child, she is still my child. If she doesn’t have a child she is still my child. What ever she decides I am going to support her. Decided to have the baby, my sister paid for child care expenses while she was in school. She went to college, got a job after college and today is she 27 years old, has a wonderful 6 figure job, a beautiful home and an even more beautiful 11 year old daughter. </p>
<p>But then again I have bothers and sisters who have gay children, who have children that have decided to go to to the military, I had a nephew who died of aids in their early 20’s and a nephew who died at 11 years old. I have former sister in law who was killed in a random act of violence and my younger sister who was single, no dependents who left her 6 figure job as a HR director and became a teacher to raise my nephews because their father(my brother) is in jail (my sister wanted her and the kids to be on the same schedule). But hey, there my family and if they ever need my help I will always be there for them. But I raised my child as a single parent (and completed 3 masters and and ABD in my PhD program in her life time) and I don’t think she is any worse for the wear.</p>
<p>I would feel that I failed as a parent if at one of the most important times of my child’s life that I wasn’t there to support or be supportive of her even if her decision was something that I may not necessarily agree with. I totally support a woman’s right to shoose and if it were my D, I would still love her, support and be supportive of whatever decision she made and I would not care 2 cents about what anyone else thought. If she chooses to have a child I am going to be there with her and for her every step of the way. </p>
<p>If I chose to financially support my daughter, there have been a hella of a lot worse things I have done with my money. What is the difference between helping your kid who has had a child, and helping your child with grad/professional school, subsidizing their first apartment? You are still giving them your financial support because you don’t want to see them struggle and you want to help them until they are in a position to better help themselves.</p>
<p>I would feel worse if I was watching the news and saying oh my goodness when I hear about a new born child who was found dead in a dumpster only to find out later that it was my grandchild and my own child felt that she could not come to me and felt the best thing for her was to go at it alone and dispose of the baby.[/end rant]</p>
<p>I have had the what if conversations with s and d. Of course S will have to accept the girls choice, but we have told him, he will still go to college, we would get grandparental rights and pay for child support (this would be his college loan and pay us back). After college if he is still with her I will throw a big white wedding, DH and I feel one mistake happens, how you react to it is a different story.</p>
<p>As for our d, I know that she does not believe in abortion and so I think she would give the child up for adoption. Before everyone starts saying Mom is forcing her opinion, I am pro-choice. That stated she also knows the exact same option will occur for her, we will pay for daycare, but that will be repaid after grad. </p>
<p>I will support my children in whatever they decide, my children are my priority…their children will have to be their priority.</p>
<p>For those who flatly say ABORTION, are you a female? Have you ever had one? I know several women who have had, don’t full yourself they still look at children and wonder what their child would be like. It is compounded when they become pregnant and again reminded when they go into the OB and state x no. pregnancies and x no. births . Or worse when they finally do get pregnant and have complications, the guilt is there. Anyone who says that it doesn’t have emotional tolls is either lying or should consider not having children</p>
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<li> Bulletandpima: In my experience (vicarious – I’m male – but I don’t doubt my closeness to the women involved or their honesty), many women who have abortions do not have significant long-term “emotional tolls” from it. Some do, but still believe that those tolls pale in comparison to what would have been involved in having a baby and either keeping it or giving it up. All of those I know had children later, when they were ready, some with complications and most not. None has ever said – at least to my knowledge, and in most cases I would know – that she regretted her decision.</li>
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<p>Of course, that doesn’t mean that other women don’t feel differently. I’m sure they do. But you are dead wrong if you think your view is universal.</p>
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<li> This isn’t a one-size-fits-all situation. I’m sure if corranged (or Juno) were my 18-year-old daughter, I would be happy to respect her decision and to provide whatever support I could for whatever she decided. That’s a no-brainer. On the other hand, the less mature the girl is, the harder it would be not to be more directive. Even then, I don’t think there’s a single answer for everyone, and it would depend heavily on the girl’s emotional makeup and preferences. But I would certainly need to be convinced that an abortion wasn’t the best option.</li>
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<p>One of the best moments in my law school experience came in a family law class, where the teacher was criticizing the Supreme Court’s requirement that there be an opportunity for a judicial hearing as an alternative to parental consent for a minor’s abortion. “What are they supposed to decide at that hearing?” he asked. He then set up a “court”, with several students acting as judges, while he took the part of a pregnant 16-year-old. A really immature, inarticulate, confused, uncomfortable, conflicted 16-year-old. (He did a great job of it – he was very in touch with his teen self.) Clearly not competent to make a decision either way. Of course, the last thing anyone wanted was that kid raising a child. All you wanted was a parent, but the parental relationship had broken down (which was why the kid was in court in the first place). All you were left with was whatever you thought was the right thing to do in the first place, before you even met the kid.</p>
<p>My girls watch the Gilmore Girls and One Tree Hill which kind of send the message that you can have a teenage pregnancy and then go on to lead a privileged upper middle class life, thin and beautiful and still going out on weekends…I keep snapping at them when these shows are on, “you KNOW that this is fantasy, don’t you?”</p>
<p>I never said these people ever regretted the abortion, they understood for themselves they made the right decision. In no means did I say my opinion is universal, however, when women get together and are hanging with close friends and people they trust we do talk about such things as this what if. All I know is the 4 women I know who had one say/said they sometimes look at kids and wonder what if…is it a fleeting moment …yes, but does it happen yes. I also know they all talked about how when they got pregnant (planned) and went in for the 1st natal check up the high from being pregnant was brought down b/c the doctor said I see this is your 2ND pregnancy, I assume since you have no live births that you had a procedure…when was that, how far along…etc.</p>
<p>Finally, one of them had a high risk preg. bed rest from 16 weeks, gave birth at 28, baby was in the hospital for 3 mos., everyday when she went to the hospital to be with the baby she lived a what if. Her cervix was compromised and now can have no more children.</p>
<p>Again I will re-state my stance, if my kids decide to have the child, I will not be the live in baby sitter, they are responsible for their actions, but I will be there emotionally. My gf has stated she would force the child to have the baby and she would raise it. I flat out asked her even if that meant her child would never speak to her, she said yes, so did her husband. They could not bear the thought someone else will raise their blood. I on the other hand will be there no matter what the choice is, any option will have a long term effect on the girl and the guy…there is only one way to have success in this situation and that is to not get into the situation to start with</p>
<p>JHS, BTW here’s a test for you since you are a guy, go out today and ask every women you meet, if you had an abortion, do you think that you would think about it in 10 yrs.? (i.e. see the ex, have a baby, remember oh yeah I had an abortion today 2 yrs ago) Use youself as an example you date a girl name Sue, she gets pregnant has an abortion, you go back to your hs reunion and see Sue, are you saying your mind thread wouldn’t take you to the point where she says I’m pregnant. Or when your wife says she is pregnant, wouldn’t that history come in for a fleeting second and make you think about it…not saying it would put you into a depression, just saying it would come into your mind</p>
<p>I also want to state I am against parental notification…here’s my reason:</p>
<p>20 yrs ago NJ had that law and NY didn’t…I was working as a cocktail waitress when one night a call came in, the bartenders daughter was in the hospital (Dad thought she was sleeping over at a friends) he came to find out she had an abortion, it took 5 months for her and her friends to round up the money, she went across the state line, had an abortion and came back home to stay with the friend for the weekend (thinking folks will never know) she started to hemorrage and had to be taken to the hospital. Her folks were very understanding and had a good relationship with her or so they thought, but she was so terrified that she never told them and took action into her own hands. We must be logical that this is not a rarity, think about the girl who gave birth at her prom and stuffed the baby into a garbage pail…folks never knew. Kids are kids and fear sometimes makes them do stupid things</p>
<p>My daughter asked me that question when she was 18–because one of her friends was pregnant and afraid to approach her mom. My D is now 22 and I am pleased to say that she will never be 18 and pregnant, so the question is a bit theoretical.</p>
<p>I would like to think that I would support my daughter, pregnant or not, in whatever she chose to do. I think an abortion would be the logical choice, but I know too many women who had abortions and now have regrets. Not soul-sucking regrets, but regrets. I support choice–but I do know that making the choice to have an abortion is, and should be, one of the most difficult decisions out there. I also know several men whose high school girlfriends had abortions, and their regrets are every bit as strong.</p>
<p>So I would recommend to my daughter: stop, think, see a counselor, think some more… then decide. Yes, there are deadlines, in the sense that the longer you wait, the more dangerous the abortion could be… but a few days wouldn’t be a big deal.</p>
<p>I would make sure my daughter spent some time with real life babies…babies who cry and don’t sleep and create atrocious diapers and spit up and perhaps aren’t always so cute. I would make sure she knew that she couldn’t go off to college as planned and leave the baby with us. But if she was going into it realistically, I’d support her decision.</p>
<p>First, I’d like to state that I’m happy women have a choice.</p>
<p>Luckily for DH and I, two women chose to trust us with their newborns, which was our only option for having a family. Our relationship is still open, with us wishing we had more contact with our children’s birthparents. We always send pictures and letters at Christmas. Occasionally we receive phone calls or birthday gifts. There have been a few visits and these have been wonderful. I hope that knowing how well these kids are doing reinforces the difficult decision they made and I believe it’s helped my kids understand and accept the decisions, as well. As my son heads off to college, he can’t fathom the idea of fatherhood. He is now almost at the age his birthfather was when he was conceived. (So maybe it would be good to remind him of this!)</p>
<p>Our school has the life like babies and every students has to go home with them for 3 days. They cry, and create a smell (you have to undress the baby to end the odor), they also have a sensor that downloads how the child did and that is the grade they receive. The child must take the baby to school, and can’t leave at home with the folks. It is the best birth control for girls. If they do teen living they wear the maternity outfit for a day in public…every couple of hours weights are added on the mimic the baby…taking your child out in a maternity outfit is very interesting, you get the stares and all you want to say its an outfit, she’s really not pregnant. I think these 2 things are better lessons than teaching abstinence and birth control. After 1 day you can be guaranteed the girl is happy to slip on her jeans and hollister shirt again…losing the figure and feeling like a whale is a great motivator for any 16 yr old</p>
<p>If my daughter came home in this position, I would respect and support every decision that she made. Just like I would if she had a child at 30 and chose to return to a (God willing!) lucrative career.</p>