<p>“As a matter of fact, he is never wrong.”
LOL! truer words were never spoken!</p>
<p>"My point is set out in the last paragraph. "
taking bets that this will change his thinking? I doubt it. Not if past history is any predictor…</p>
<p>Brain teaser for the day (sorry for hijacking your thread, falma).
You are on MIT’s campus, and you hear a car crash, and you look behind and see that 2 cars have collided. The driver of one is a MIT student. The driver of another is a student at a local Massachusetts community college. Even though you didn’t see the accident, when the police come, you are able to testify with confidence whose fault it was. How is that possible?</p>
<p>The answer. It’ was the CC student’s fault! A superior MIT student could never make a mistake and cause a car crash.</p>
<p>^^ But if the MIT student DID cause a crash, it must have been Yale’s fault!</p>
<p>It seems to me that the problem is more how your son may feel if he cannot go to a reach/high reach school. (Either because he doesn’t get in or because the finances just don’t make sense.) And, it seems that this is at least partly, and perhaps largely because the prevailing culture of the school is so focused on the elite schools.
I think that you find other schools viable (for a variety of reasons, including the hard truth that he might not get and/or you might not be able/choose to spend the money).
So, perhaps your best use of your resources is to help him see that the other choices are reasonable. To that end I can suggest a number of things:
- I won’t buy any of the ‘how to get into the Ivies’ types of books. Or, if you must, read it and hide it. They tend (from those I’ve looked at) to encourage the “elites are the only way” mentality in a way that is probably not helpful.
- Find some ways for him to see how good other schools can be. If he contacts the department in which he is most interested , and shows how strong a student he is, he’ll probably get a very positive response. Surfing around the school website may turn up some unexpected positives.
- The Greek thing - that was an issue for us too (in the end, it didn’t matter, but during the list-making period it did). Yes - Greek life can be huge. But there are always ways for non-Greeks to survive and even thrive. I’m not sure how you can convince him of this.
- Rejection - make a plan for it. He will probably get rejected by at least one school he really likes. This can be really hard for the high achieving kids who just aren’t used to it.</p>
<p>Falmamom–don’t underestimate your son, he may be very mature about the financial realities of college. I can tell you that DH and I were not too concerned about finances when S1 applied to college. Luckily he is graduating with under 15,000 in debt but we are financially exhausted! We’re really tired of being poor–no new cars, stay-cations, no home improvements, etc… When it came time for S2 to apply, he was well aware of the costs (he sacrificed as well while older brother has been in college). He was accepted to an “elite” college and we were willing to go into a “little bit of debt” for it; but nothing that would be an extreme burden (we still have one more to go). He knew this going in and that a lot would depend on FA, he was very mature about it.</p>
<p>I’m sure it will be harder for you to to think strictly about the finances as this is your oldest and us parents want to give them all that we can. But don’t shortchange your other kids, will they have to significantly change their lifestyle for big brother? If they are accepted to an IVY will you be able to send them as well? Just remember that giving him a financial reality check is a gift that will last them a lifetime.</p>
<p>mtnmomma - it’s true that juniors in high school can be quite mature about financial issues, though I don’t think they can fully understand the wide gamut of a debts consequences.</p>
<p>My hubby is working in finance, so he sat with our son and did the math with him. They took into account our guaranteed financial contribution (hopefully we’ll be able to give him more, but we don’t know for sure now), and came up with the numbers in terms of loans and long term payments. Our son felt it would be something he’ll be able to handle, and is willing to accept this ‘burden’ to be able to attend an Ivy/elite school if admitted… Well… our son is no doubt good at math, and can even try to imagine his life upon graduation; but… I’m not really sure he fully understands what it means to be in debt. </p>
<p>On a side note - I totally agree with you that parents should factor in not only the child soon going to college, but all their children who will need financial support at some point. We are doing just that - our guaranteed financial support to our son factors in the other children, who will be guaranteed the same exact amount of money. You are so very right that it could be very problematic to invest in one child on the account of his/her siblings. Thanks for pointing this out!</p>
<p>menloparkmom - congrats! what an accomplishment!
It always amazes me that when “life happens”, most people (including college applicants…) seem to bounce back and find their own path, which oftentimes makes them very happy and successful.
I have no doubt that in the face of rejection (from the Ivy/elite colleges) our son will also find his own way, and will learn to appreciate it. There are so many incredible schools out there!</p>
<p>nemom - </p>
<p>I have to agree with you that it has a lot to do with the school culture combined with his own desire to make his dream come true.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tips. </p>
<p>The only college guide we use is the Fiske Guide to Colleges, which allows for an efficient overview of different schools. I am staying away from any Ivy focused guide as a quick look into one of them (at our library) conveyed such a message that will leave my son feeling like a real failure if he doesn’t get in (even beyond the sense of failure he will be experiencing anyway).</p>
<p>I’ve been spending some time lately looking into other schools that can fit his interests, beyond the ones he already identified, and came up with a couple that could possibly work. Contacting a specific department could be a good idea - thanks.</p>
<p>The Greek thing is a bit of an issue for him. He’s not the partying/drinking type, and he really is looking for a college that does not send the message that party life is it’s middle name. I cannot blame him for wanting to fit in, and both my hubby and I celebrate his preferences. While he’s not a geek or a loner, attending a school that focuses on the part scene probably attracts a specific type of students that he feels will require him to work much harder to find those who are more like him. He’s not totally ruling out attending such school, but he’s prefer a college with a less prominent Greek life and focus on parties/</p>
<p>Planning ahead for rejection is not that easy… he is down to earth, realizing his chances are slim, though I truly believe it is not very easy (or even possible) to shield oneself from the negative consequences of being rejected, especially for kids who were not used to it. That said, we all take this into account, and having a plan B (and C) is probably the best way to overcome rejection.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
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<p>Picking really really good safeties and matches helps with this. The saddest kids at the end of admissions season are the ones whose lists were a whole bunch of lottery schools, along with a safety thrown in without much thought. When their lottery number doesn’t come up, they don’t have anything to be enthused about. :(</p>
<p>POIH - </p>
<p>My son has nothing against Greek life in general, and you’re totally right that it depends on the type of Greek life, which differ tremendously from school to school. </p>
<p>I was referring to those schools who have the ‘party school’ reputation. which are likely to mostly attract kids who are looking for this type of college environment. Greek life per se is not an issue for him at all.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove -</p>
<p>How true! I’ve seen this firsthand recently with seniors who rejected from their dream schools and did not have Plan B schools that they really liked. It was pretty heartbreaking. In contrast, those who did identify such schools they were excited to attend (although not excited as attending their dream school) seemed to have bounced back in no time and are truly eager to start school in the Fall.</p>
<p>For the same exact reason we are now in the process of identifying those target and reach schools that our son will be happy to attend if rejected from his dream schools. Easy to say, and so difficult to accomplish… but we’ll get there eventually…</p>
<p>FalmaMom: Alcohol is rampant on MIT campus too and is distributed free of cost during the parties organized by Fraternities and can be of concern.
The motto seems to be study hard and party hard nature. So don’t think of it as a sober school.</p>
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<p>Newsflash…the Greek systems at MOST universities are involved in community and school service and the like. This is not unique to MIT. </p>
<p>Also…if 50% of the students are members of fraternities…that means that 50% are NOT…plenty of folks are not involved in the Greek system.</p>
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<p>And you don’t think this is the vision MOST folks have of fraternities? Sounds like a party system to me.</p>
<p>^^^:True, I did mention that it can be of concern to some, so it’s better to be aware of.
With participation of 50% or more there is an equal chance of interacting with Frat boy and a non Frat boy. While colleges where participation is less than 10% the chances to meet one is rare.</p>
<p>I really did not realize MIT was a party school, so it is good to know. Our son was considering it, though it is not one of his dream schools. </p>
<p>Is MIT considered a cut-throat school? Our son would like to avoid a cut-throat atmosphere as much as possible, and thus already ruled out a couple of really great school due to their cut-throat reputation.</p>
<p>Any suggestions for good schools (Ivy/elite/great academically) that are not cut-throat in nature?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Rice is not cut-throat, and the most stressed students seemed to be the pre-meds.
I don’t know that many colleges are truly “cut-throat”. There are just too many students there and too many different kinds of people.</p>
<p>I also would not consider MIT a party school by any stretch. You are going to find lots of drinking and partying at almost all colleges, with a few exceptions. Some, obviously, have a stronger party rep than others (particularly large state universities), but ALL have plenty of serious students. I felt there was a lot of drinking and partying at Penn, but most of the students seemed to be pretty engaged in their academics, too.</p>
<p>MomOfWildChild - are you referring to UPenn or to Penn State?</p>
<p>At least from what I’ve heard, some Ivy schools are more cut throat than others, but I could be wrong.</p>
<p>As for Rice, it is a great school, though way beyond the 4 hours drive our son is looking for (we are located in NJ)…</p>
<p>UPenn. Plenty of partying at Penn State, too, of course.</p>
<p>I forgot about the 4 hour drive. Interestingly, when I was going to college, my parents pretty much insisted that I was OUTSIDE the 4 hour drive range from Philadelphia. Off I went to Indiana!</p>
<p>I forget some of the earlier posts as I have been distracted by the nonsense spewed forth by our pro-MIT friend, but it sounds like Haverford/Swarthmore would be worth a look for your son.</p>
<p>I think some majors (like the ones associated with being pre-med) tend to be more cutthroat than others. I majored in Visual and Environmental Studies at Harvard and it wasn’t cut throat at all, but when I had to take a lab physics course I found it got a lot more competitive!</p>
<p>There is plenty of partying going on at even the serious nerd schools. Caltech puts on amazing parties for example.</p>