<p>Keep in mind folks that you can set your format to ignore posters you do not enjoy reading. That is what I do, or I just skip over them.</p>
<p>To the OP: I have always thought that state schools often cherry pick the best students from other states. This is not universally true, but it does happen, so if you can get your son to apply to some OOS state schools, he may be pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>He may want to apply to Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylvania state schools. I know kids who took scholarships in those states–though I must admit that I don’t know how generous Maryland is with OOS students. NY schools are reasonably priced for OOS, but I don’t know how generous they are with merit money.</p>
<p>It is a bit of a disadvantage being from the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic region because there are just so darn many really top kids here. Your son will find something wonderful.</p>
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<p>Our family wasn’t all that concernedabout cost until we had the choice between paying $60,000 as a full-pay family and paying $10,000 with a full tuition scholarship.</p>
<p>“Based on your experience and knowledge, do you think that an Ivy League education - with all that comes with it, such as networking, career services, and the like - worth the debt/loans that are part of this ‘package deal’.”</p>
<p>-It largely depends on ultimate goal. For example, if Med. School is an ultimate goal, UG does not matter, college GPA+MCAT score are the most important along with EC’s, social skills…etc. Overall. going to state UG on full tuition Merit scholarship after graduating #1 from her private perp. HS has worked for our D. beyond our expectation. We have discovered that profs at her school were dedicated to teaching (according to D.), their own research was NOT their #1, while in a lot of begi name schools that attract big name profs, their first priority is their own research, they teach because they have to. This one aspect makes huge difference along with the fact that opportunities are everywhere, it is up to a kid to seek them (I am talking about EC’s, like jobs, Research internships, college life participation…). Although it was not our priority #1 when choosing UG, D. is starting Med. School without loans. We, parents, appreciate the fact that we did not have to pay UG tuition, so we are willing to foot Med. School, but we will take one year at a time since nobody knows in this economis situation what might happen tomorrow.
Just to throw another example, most engineering firms hire locally (I know lots of engineers, including my H). So, Ivy does not make much sense for engineering either.
I bet, there are examples of when it makes huge sense to go to Ivy. For example, when resources are unlimited and when child does not mind to go far from home, why not Ivy?
It is funnny that even when D. applied to Med. Schools, she still refused to apply outside of radius of 4.5 hours driving from home. It has worked for her in both cases, UG and Med. School.</p>
<p>Again, it depends largely on a goal and family situation and preferences.<br>
State UG + private elite Med. School has worked for us.</p>
<p>The ivys are great, no doubt about it. Your child will get a great education, make great friends and establish a great network of contacts. But, there are many paths to the IB industry. There was a great thread a few yrs back (please someone help me with the poster’s name) from a poster who chose a great scholarship at Vandy over attendance at, I believe it was Yale. He never looked back and had a great college experience. I forget what he is doing now. Can anyone help? </p>
<p>As an example, I have a friend whose son works in IB (Morgan Stanley) who is a Vandy grad. That same friend has a nephew whe went to Harvard, worked briefly in IB on Wall Street, and is now a professional gambler! So, who knows what paths any student will take after college.</p>
<p>Will the recruitment and opportunities be good at the ivies? Sure. No question. Also true for the top LACs. But is it worth spending almost a quarter million to attend, especially if the student gets a top scholarship elsewhere (eg the Duke/UNC scholarships described above, the top scholarships at other flagship state schools, the Emory Scholars scholarship, etc, to name but a few)- thats a personal decision. It sure is nice to start one’s post college life with that kind of cash in their pocket. If they will anyway, even as a private pay at the ivy,then it is a reasonable option if the student gets in.
Good luck. This is a great position to be in.</p>
<p>^^^The poster you are thinking of is EvilRobot or something similar (maybe not one word, and the caps may be wrong). He chose Vanderbilt over Yale because of the merit scholarship. He wasn’t interested in banking, though; his majors were computer science and math, and he got a master’s degree in CS simultaneously. The last I read, and that was a couple of years ago, he went to work for Google. CS people move around, and I have no idea where he is now.</p>
<p>I didn’t know Evil’s story when my son was choosing a school, and son certainly still does not. However, son took the same scholarship, had the same set of majors, also got a master’s degree in four and is headed for the same part of the CS universe. So, the story is definitely not apocryphal, as others have suggested.</p>
<p>Congrats to your son, midmo!
I looked up evil robot’s post history- and I think that’s close, but not sure its him. That poster’s threads talk about Duke and law school.</p>
<p>“No, you are completely wrong.
ALL decent schools offer a major in economics or math. Almost NO top schools offer majors in “business” or “marketing” or whatever. And I can assure you that the people who are being hired by top financial firms are NOT those with “business” degrees from second rate schools.”</p>
<p>I am fully aware that most top schools do not offer business as an undergrad major (though Cornell and UPenn do) (and thanks much, cptofthehouse, for coming to my defense!). My son is most likely looking into majoring in economics (and possibly a combination of economics and finance) along with a concentration/minor in a more quantitative field (computer science or info systems).</p>
<p>As for your other comment, I do agree with you that many private schools out there do not worth paying full tuition for, and sadly, we are not a family that “has so much money that it is irrelevant”… I wish =)</p>
<p>I guess that it, as many posters state, will come down to the list of his acceptances… we’ll then have to do the math and take it from there.</p>
<p>You should definitely feel flattered, though I have to admit that I’ve never seen your posting prior to posting mine… possibly two great/twisted/exhausted/Shakespearian (choose one) think alike? =)</p>
<p>One of my kid’s good friends has house on the market, and will take out loans, whatever, as their third child is going to UC Berkeley, her top choice, no aid. The other two are at Yale and Harvard. Their first priority has been school reputation and what the kid wants and they will do just about anything to pay for those colleges. They are. Their choice.</p>
<p>I know the IB field a little too well being here in NY and knowing many, many in it. Those big time positions are predominantly filled with MBAs from top school. Some Wharton and Cornell exceptions,but given all of the business, econ majors from top ug schools, the numbers are very small and those kids tend to be from connected families. And the route to a top MBA, which is definitely an advantage in getting high priced positions, is not going to an ug business program. Also, there are no grants to these top MBA programs, something I am painfully aware as we paid off DH’s over many long years. Even great pay levels feel those loans when they are layered over expensive undergraduate ones. I nearly choked, and I thought I was beyond surprised when I saw the COA for some top MBA programs these days. </p>
<p>Also, a lot of kids here graduated from top schools, including HPY, and most of them are still being subsidized by parents as they go to their jobs, if they have them. A lot of low paying and non paying internships here. I just talked to parents whose son has a great sounding job–two years out of Princeton, and he is truly a high achiever. They are paying most of his living costs still and are getting anxious as their third one is coming up for college. and these are well to do parents. Paying for the kid out of college is something a lot of parents just do not anticipate and it happens a lot. Sometimes integral to stepping into the right job. Here in NYC, I think employers take advantage of those parents willing to do this and deliberately have hot sounding job descriptions at slave labor prices that send the parents panting and willing to help the kid out. </p>
<p>Many of these ivy grad folks that look they are doing so well are living on family money still. As someone whose only income is the DH’s paycheck, it is a whole other story for my kids. They are truly on their own after graduation of college unless they need shelter from the storm here at home. I take in all family members here who need sanctuary. But I don’t pay for things like cars, meals out or give out money. Be aware that a lot of kids who go to certain schools come from families that have contacts to give their kids a leg up on some jobs. They are not going to extend that help except in very rare cases to those outside the family circle.</p>
<p>Thanks for the Ivy admissions book tip; I’ll definitely look it up.</p>
<p>Our son is hook-less… no URM, no legacies, not a first generation, and not an accomplished athlete. He is, most likely, going to be nominated NMF (we just received the letter yesterday). His profile is very strong - SAT, SAT subject test, and GPA (he’ll be taking the ACT in the Fall - he has too many AP and IB exams along with a Physics SAT lined up this Spring). His ECs are pretty strong, and quite unique, which I assume is a good thing. His schools is quite a strong Ivy schools feeder, though I’m not sure it is such a good thing, as it actually makes competition much harder.</p>
<p>On a side note (actually a pretty central point to make), we - our son and us, his parents - are totally aware of the chances of getting into an Ivy school even for kids with strong profiles. As his school guidance counselor says, the Ivies oftentimes expect applicants to have track records of saving the world, curing cancer, or at least coming from a royal family… </p>
<p>That said, and assuming he will at least get into some prestigious non-Ivy/elite schools that most likely don’t offer generous merit scholarship, if any, we’ll be back to square one… does it worth paying full freight to attend such institutions vs. attending a less prestigious college that offers full/half ride?..</p>
<p>pugmadkate and menloparkmom - I do hear you loud an clear, though truth is, that being a Junior CC member also alludes to the fact that our current junior is our oldest son… so I have to admit that his wish to stay close to home also coincides with our wish to have him attend college within a driving distance. Sounds pathetic? possibly, but it’s the pure truth, and I think that I’m willing to pay the financial price that comes with it - in terms of using fund to help him out with some of his college tuition, taking loans to help him out some more, and having him take loans.</p>
<p>Having three younger children, it is possible that with our second/third/forth child we will see things differently. Time will tell…</p>
<p>BTW… at a recent parents panel at our son’s school a parent was telling us about limiting her own child’s college options within a 4-5 hours drive (in our case, it is our son’s wish, which also works well with our wishes, but we havent in any way pushed him one was or the other). So… her first child did attend a college close to home (in is, luckily, very happy there). However, they did not limit child #2 and she will be attending a college in Europe this Fall…</p>
<p>It is definitely worth looking further into, though I’m afraid that we will not qualify. This might have been a good thing for families with one/two children, but is bad news for families (like ours) with four children…</p>
<p>If he likes econ with a super-quant focus, he might be interested in Northwestern’s Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences program, which is rather unique. You can take it as a dual major with any social science, though econ is most popular. It doesn’t fit your 4 hours driving time desire, though.</p>
<p>It is true that some public scholar programs offer great opportunities. My son is considering applying to Penn State’s scholar program, though not as one of his top choices. The program itself is phenomenal, but he’s not too excited about attending such large campus, and the party scene that is knows at Penn State is not one that is too appealing for his type of person (although I know of many many many teens who would love to attend a party school, which is totally fine).</p>
<p>As for networking and career service opportunities (and excuse me for possibly sounding politically incorrect), I find it hard to believe that state schools offer the same resources (or similar) to those offered by an Ivy school or another prestigious institution…</p>
<p>There are tons and tons and tons of other careers in the business world beyond investment banking. To listen to CC, you’d think that the only jobs in business were i-banking and management consulting. Remember, someone’s actually got to do the work of running the businesses that Wall Street invests in / finances and that the management consultants consult to. And those businesses are not necessarily only in NYC. There are real companies outside of NYC, honest! LOL.</p>
<p>The major problem with flagship honors programs for you, FalmaMom, is not that they might have less impressive resources than some elite privates, but that your kid will be OOS for all but Rutgers, unless there is reciprocity. Which often means that the price tag is close to that of the private, or even higher if you can get some FA at the private. Speaking as a person who lives in a state without one of those great flagships, I often note that those who extol them seem to think that we all live in Va, Ca, or Michigan, or maybe Md or Wa or Wi. :)</p>
<p>If your kid can get one of the named scholarships mentioned above, that of course would be a different story. Casting a wide net of merit/need, private/public honors college and so forth will give your son alternatives to choose from in April. Ultimately, you need to make sure that he understands clearly that finances are going to be essential to the decision-making process going into the whole thing, apply to a well-chosen array of schools, and then see how the choices stack up next April.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip. Northwestern is an incredible school and the program you mention is indeed a top notch one (and very unique, which is a good thing in this case). That said, beyond the location, our son is not looking to minor in a super-quantitative field, but rather in fields such as info systems, computer science and the like.</p>
<p>And… he is not limiting himself to IB or consulting jobs. He is very down to earth (for the most part…), and is considering other jobs within the business world.</p>
<p>BTW - our son should go by “pizzaboy”… he can practically live on pizza - 24/7, any time, any day =)</p>
<p>What a troubling notion… I wasn’t really taking into account the need to possibly finance my children after graduation. It is my hope that at least our junior (who is planning on earning a marketable degree) will be able not only to support himself upon graduation but to also start paying off his loans.</p>
<p>I have received PM from people who share such success stories with me, about children graduating with a marketable degree from prestigious schools, finding a job that pays well (with no prior connections), and being able to pay their loans, support themselves, and even have fun. I guess there’s hope…</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. Our son visited MIT, and is certainly considering applying, though it is unlikely to be his first choice. Being that MIT for the most part has a technological focus, and although MIT’s business school is beyond incredible, he prefers to attend a less “focused” school that offers a larger array of majors. Thus, Columbia, Princeton, and UPenn will most likely be his top choices, though if admitted, he will no doubt seriously consider attending MIT!</p>
<p>You’ve obviously not dealt with the powerhouses that are UT Austin, Michigan or UVA, for example. </p>
<p>I attended a small high school in New Jersey and several of my classmates are now very successful on Wall Street. One went to Princeton, two to Rutgers and one dropped out of college.</p>