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<p>Not sure what you mean by a ‘quantitative field’. Computer science is indeed a quantitative field, heavy on math and statistics. ‘Info systems’ is quite different.</p>
<p>"I find it hard to believe that state schools offer the same resources (or similar) to those offered by an Ivy school or another prestigious institution… "</p>
<p>-Nobody could tell because the same person cannot be at two different places at the same time. “Believing” is not the fact, it is belief. The fact is that state schools have tons of resources, more than one kid could possibly handle. My D. had to turn down some awesome opportunities, because her time was simply filled more than she has ever imagined it would, they have to sleep also. Another fact is that Ivy schools have undoubtly tons of opportunites also. So, more or less is not important. Kid seeking opportunites is what counts. </p>
<p>As an example, D. has beed hand picked by Chem prof. to be his assistant, best job on campus that allowed her to polish her communication skills and got Chem. ingraved in her brain to the point that no review was needed for MCAT. She would not have this opportunity at Ivy (however, again, it is my strong opinion, not fact, since there is no way for D. to be at Ivy Chem. class at the same time as she was taking it at her non-flagship state school). Getting internship at Med. Research Lab was a breath - email to person in charge and light interview. I heard that people are having hard time getting internships at similar labs. Another one -volunteering of D’s choice and another one that she was able to organize herself; nomination to be Sorority president, had to turn down, but went to national convention, which was absolutely awesome unforgetful experience. Her state school has campus in Europe - again D. did not have time for that, but took an organized hiking trip to NZ with her college group - lifelong dream and still going to another one abroad right after her graduation. I can continue on and on, my post would be more than a page long if I do, since various awards and honors started falling literally from the sky right before graduation. Again, I can only speculate without any kind of factual data that most of these would not be so readily available for my D. at Ivy school… and, again, tuition free.</p>
<p>“That said, and assuming he will at least get into some prestigious non-Ivy/elite schools that most likely don’t offer generous merit scholarship, if any, we’ll be back to square one… does it worth paying full freight to attend such institutions vs. attending a less prestigious college that offers full/half ride?..” </p>
<p>Ultimately, only you will be able to answer that. I can sure tell you that you will sleep much better at night if you can end up saving $250,000 while knowing that your DS is getting a great education, which in the end is really up to him, once he is in college . Very bright, hard working, focused kids with drive can and do rise to the top, regardless of where they are. Currently you want him to remain closer to home. Perfectly normal and understandable. DS was our one and only and we didn’t want him far away either. But keep in mind that a college 3000 miles away is only a 5 hr plane ride away. Not so different than a 4 hr car drive. Just be sure he spreads his net far and wide in order to have the greatest chance at Merit $$. The Robertson scholarships, for example, are more competitive than trying to get into HYPS.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, that’s all wonderful for your daughter, but I don’t see how you conclude that these kinds of opportunities wouldn’t be just as equally available at an Ivy or elite school.</p>
<p>FalmaMom:
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<p>I’m not sure if anyone critisizing my posts have any actual experience with MIT. While DD was in high school my approach to I-Banking was also different and would have suggested Princeton (Financial Engineering) as a better option than MIT.
But with 2 years of information from MIT parent alumni, my first hand experience of MIT Sloan undergraduate presentations and DD’s first hand experience with the career office, my opinion has changed.
I’m just trying to provide you information which I think most people are not aware of. I’m not sure why any one have a problem with this because knowledge is power and more one knows, a better decision will be taken.</p>
<p>Now in my view if your DS knows that he wants to make it into I-Banking then he actually need a focus school than some one who doesn’t know what he wants to do long term. It is very important where he go to school if I-Banking is on the card. </p>
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At MIT your DS will have to make an effort to avoid I-Bankers while at most other schools he will have to make an effort to get in touch with them.
That itself is a big plus.</p>
<p>Let’s try to logically debate merit of each school and see if one will certainly provide an advantage over the other.
Would you like to let me know why do you think for Columbia/Princeton/Wharton might be a better choice than MIT for I-Banking?
I might be able to provide you information that change your perception regarding it.</p>
<p>Falma: #52–I have 7 kids, 3rd one is a junior now. I’ll PM you.</p>
<p>I have my popcorn ready…debate away.</p>
<p>OP already indicated that they don’t have any hook. Even if she does, that may get her son admitted but no money. Last I check, I am not aware of any merit scholarship from the Ivy. They provide ONLY need-based aid - no money for talent or merit. As to national merit - typically $750-$2000 far from enough…
OP also indicated clearly in her 1st post that they are not qualified for financial aid. I thought this whole thread is about whether Ivy is worth taking out almost $1/4 million loan if one has to pay full price for 4 year?</p>
<p>I would say not worth it for undergrad - if her son indeed gets into the Ivy, he would probably get in many other good schools that offer him a lot of perks and merit scholarships. He will likely pay only fraction of that amount for his undergrad and still receive the same good education. After that, he can apply Ivy for graduate school claiming as an independent, perhaps he might have a shot at fellowships or financial aid for grad school.</p>
<p>DadWith2Sons: DD is full pay at MIT @ $55K annually but I think it is worth each penny. She will be paid $18K for her coming summer internship which I don’t think she would have got at another college as Sophomore.
I don’t think you can put a cost on such valuable experience. Is it worth taking a loan? It’s up to each family to decide but I think it might be more prudent to take a loan for such an experience than a piece of land or other materialistic objects.</p>
<p>Just to make it clear that I don’t have to take a loan for DD’s education so might not be in a same boat as someone who has to take a loan for education.</p>
<p>What I cannot understand is, if you’re not qualifying for financial aid, then your family has to be making over 200k a year, enough to sustain four average American households. Why would you need to support your child’s college education completely out of loans so that you’ll end up a quarter million dollars in debt by the end of the four years? What happened to the income? I find it hard to believe that one needs 200k+ to live comfortably. Also, shouldn’t you have at least saved over the years in anticipation for the inevitability of your child going to college? :o</p>
<p>Wow! $18K for a summer internship? Who the heck pays that kind of money for a sophomore? Is it 6 weeks? 8? Either one blows my mind!</p>
<p>xrCalico23: True, but $200K is not same all over the US. In our area (CA bay area) it’s not even possible to maintain 2 households in 200K income.</p>
<p>But I do agree that OP family should have saving or enough income to pay towards the college that they don’t have to take loans to the extend of $250K.</p>
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<p>12 weeks so ~1500/wk but she is not alone and lot’s of her friends at her college get similar pay. The maximum internship pay is ~2K/wk this year in her circle.</p>
<p>woody - so do kids from Cornell, and from other schools too. When I called up Cornell career center to hire few engineering interns few years back, I was told I had to offer minimum $25/hour to get any response. A year later, I got very few response and had to raise the rate.</p>
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<p>POIH…it’s fine that you are able and willing to pay the full costs of your daughter attending MIT. BUT the notion that this valuable experience is a CHOICE for all applicants is beyond ridiculous. Some folks simply don’t have the liquid cash (regardless of income level) to fund this cost, and some folks simply do NOT have the cash…period…to fund MIT or any other “materialistic object”. You make it sound like EVERYONE could make the choice to fully fund MIT…and should consider doing so.</p>
<p>First…some folks don’t like MIT…and believe it or not, they don’t want to attend the school or apply there for a variety of reasons ranging from location to programs. Their opinions and that is fine. Every college applicant has their own reasons for choosing or NOT a school.</p>
<p>Second…some families are in the donut hole of college financial aid. They earn too much to qualify for significant need based aid (which is ALL that MIT awards) but at the same time they don’t have the available cash to fund the school at the level MIT computes. And you know…that’s OK too. Every family has different ways to expend their funds.</p>
<p>Third…some folks have to prioritize how they spend their money…they are not in the position to pay all of their bills, buy a second home, fund private high school prior to college, live in an expensive area of the country, or fully fund $55,000 a year plus spending money for a student to attend a private college. Again…their choice and there is NOTHING wrong with families who have different priorities.</p>
<p>To the OP…you need to weigh your own situation. Really, only YOU can determine if you really should take out substantial loans for your child’s undergraduate education. </p>
<p>Here is the Thumper family choice. BOTH parents worked full time so we COULD fund college costs for two kids at private universities that do not meet full need at all…and of course because we worked, we had family contributions that were high. We decided to dedicate ONE parent’s income to college costs…and we let our KIDS pick the schools with very little input from us. Bottom line…they were going to college, not us, and we felt they needed to have the most input into the decision. One kid went to a school that is higher ranked (we had NO idea this was the case…we have never read an edition of US NEW college rankings). He was a fine arts major. The second kid went to a school that no one around here had ever heard of before…but is well known where it is located. She majored in engineering…never gave a second thought to applying to “higher ranked” schools as ABET was what she knew she needed. </p>
<p>I’m a huge fan of my kids’ colleges but I have to say…that comes out on the individual college forums here when folks inquire…and sometimes in PMs. College choices are so personal as they should be. I’m willing, if asked, to give my opinions about my kids’ colleges and that is it. </p>
<p>In addition, family finances are a very personal thing…and decisions about college financing and the family belong with EACH family.</p>
<p>There are plenty of families in the Bay area and in my area living on less than $100K a year. It’s just that most of us spend and buy a standard of living commensurate with our incomes with little or not though to paying private college costs.</p>
<p>The OP has already determined that paying for ivy or top schools is worth borrowing if the student gets into a school that is deemed “worth it”.</p>
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<p>TWO households? Sorry but if you are maintaining two households, you should drop one and pay for college.</p>
<p>A few random comments … </p>
<p>1) As a grad of 3 very highly-selective schools I would NEVER recommend students or their families go into massive debt to pay for one of these schools … I love them for some students but not at the cost of a lot of debt. That said I have no idea if the family could make the finances work but reworking their budget … pushing out retirement or semi-retirement … maybe lowering their retirement number … etc.</p>
<p>2) SecondToGo just finished his college hunt and as a member of the 3.0-3.3 student thread was awarded merit money at 4 of the 6 schools to which he was admited … and in the case of OOS state schools the merit awards brought their cost of attendence to about the mid-point between our state flagship and full-cost private schools … so for the OP I would think her son would receive much better merit awards that might make many OOS flagships quite viable.</p>
<p>3) While hunting for SecondToGo it became clear merit money became available at very-very good schools … one only needs to drop down to about 20 among either the research universities or LACs to find schools giving substantial aid … and these schools can provide a great experience for many students … and I would claim being a bigger fish can work out great for some students.</p>
<p>OP, you mentioned “major debt upon graduation” - whose debt do you think that would be? If you do not qualify for aid, then your S could only borrow up to the Stafford limits, starting with about 5500 Freshman year. The rest of the debt would be yours. No one will lend him money - as a minimum, you would co-sign. It sounded like you expected the debt to be his, as you had other priorities for your money, which is perfectly reasonable. </p>
<p>Maybe others can comment on how this could work, but I can see problems ahead for families if there is not perfect agreement, and flawless follow-through, on who owns the debt.</p>
<p>I brought this up. OP will likely have to take out the loans or co-sign. A number of parents do this, counting on their kids to get lucrative jobs and be able to repay them. I know some parents where this has not happened, and, yes, it gets stressful. Also an issue if the kid goes on to grad, med school and takes out even more loans. Those ug loans, other than the subsidized ones which don’t look applicable in this case, keep right on increasing with interest, and the rates are not good. And if something happens to the student, the parent is on the hook. Sadly this sometimes happens.</p>