To keep quiet or not-- what would you do?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Try not to do that. See if someone is interested and treat them. Hopefully, someone who is not manipulative.</p>

<p>My mother was asked a few weeks ago to attend an event. The person who invited my mother has season tickets with her daughter, but the daughter could not attend. The person who did the inviting paid for everything associated with the evening. My mother was absolutely thrilled! My mother also did not feel guilty about being treated because my mother has driven her to numerous places since this woman no longer drives a car. My mother did offer to pay her way, or split other expenses (she always does), but the friend refused the money.</p>

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<p>nem-
if she bails she’ll probably do it at the last minute, and to be honest it would be unpleasently stressful for me to be making a bunch of phonecalls at the last minute trying to find someone to take her ticket. It will stress me out, and if I was somehow able to do it, she’ll probably feel no obligation to pay me for her ticket, and I would in turn not ask the person I invite to pay me, so I’d probably get stuck paying for both. Its not the cost, its the principle of the thing. ANd again, if she bails she jsut walks away and it becomes my headache to try to find someone to use her ticket? Thats not fair. Again, this is all conjecture.</p>

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<p>Those excuses wouldn’t have been acceptable in my extended family nor in my circle of friends. Offering those excuses with my family would not only mean you wouldn’t ever be invited back, but also any mutual friends would hear from them about the offender’s “not being raised properly”, being “unreliable/undependable”, and to treat them accordingly…especially the less assimilated side. Especially with the son excuse as on both sides of the family…if the parent has a prior social commitment with other adults…they come first unless the son has a serious medical emergency. To do otherwise is considered to be enabling a “spoiled brat” from their perspective…especially considering from their perspective…seniors are to be respected over junior members of the family. </p>

<p>With most friends, such excuses would be accepted politely…but we’d write off that person as an unreliable flake at best and stop inviting him/her out with us unless they promise not to act like a flake and follow through accordingly. </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, are you an ESFJ on the Myers-Brigg scale? Your generous nature, willingness to help out, and IMHO…excessive willingness to excuse your friend’s flakiness/manipulativeness reminds me of a great friend who is similarly generous…and unfortunately…some former friends have taken advantage of him. </p>

<p>As an ENTJ who hates seeing such a generous friend being taken advantage of as such…after hearing him tell me how he felt bad about it and yet conflicted because he’s overthinking certain aspects from the flaky/manipulative former friends’ perspectives…I’m the one who has to explain that considering their behavior…they’re the ones who failed in their promises/obligation and as such…he has no more obligation to them…including feeling bad for them. </p>

<p>When it got to a ridiculous point, I had no problems confronting those former friends and reading them the riot act about the wrongfulness of treating a friend who was so generous and giving so poorly and disrespectfully…and that they owed him a sincere apology for their actions. Granted, some…especially the sensing feely types on the scale may feel I was being too blunt and forward…but IME…it did tend to cut through a thick layer of BS…especially the manipulative variety and clear the air to see where everyone really stood.</p>

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<p>cobrat,
This is her youngest son, who is on the spectrum, so his needs are a little different. That said, he’s not a baby, hes in middle school.</p>

<p>IIRC, I am also an ENTJ (though the thinking/feeling was almost on the line) But ist been a very long time.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, most of my family members wouldn’t have felt this constituted a “medical emergency”…especially considering he’s in middle school. Something I disagree with depending where he is on the spectrum. </p>

<p>A large part of this is due to the fact some members of my extended family…including a few uncles and my father were orphaned and on their own at the age of most US middle schoolers or younger due to the Second Sino-Japanese War-WWII/Chinese Civil War. My parents had no problems allowing me to commute alone for an hour on the subway to/from my middle school in 1980’s NYC or to allow me to be a latchkey kid because that was common practice back then…when the popular notions of it being a crime-ridden city did have some basis in fact…unlike the last 15 or so years. Heck, I was already a pro at riding the subways alone by then since I was doing it since the age of 6.</p>

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<p>I think family members are different from friends, and I wouldn’t want to talk behind her back. I have emailed her to see about dinner reservations for Friday and ask where/when we are going Saturday.</p>

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<p>I would look the other way for this excuse, but not as a regular routine.</p>

<p>Jym, you don’t need to put yourself under stress over going out for what should have been FUN. I did realize that you would be stuck paying for both, but thought you could treat someone and still put the tickets to good use. </p>

<p>We are occasionally in a similar position where DH gets some tickets to some sporting events and cannot attend. I told him that the next time this happens I would like for him to just give them to a guy that worked in middle management at a place one of our son’s worked in. He was so kind, generous, and thoughtful to our son and does not have a lot of money, and would be so thrilled to get tickets like this. Our son no longer has any dealings with him, so it would not be viewed as a bribe, but just a gift to show our appreciation.</p>

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<p>I feel compelled to offer some tough love, jym.</p>

<p>You know this isn’t about an alarm or cheap wine or a ticket or a meal. You’ve allowed this woman to treat you poorly, and you’re fed up – as you should be. Of course, she has redeeming qualities, but those are excuses at this point for why you can’t screw up the courage to tell her how you really feel. Your e-mails are reasonable, so perhaps you’ll get a positive resolution to this specific encounter, but something else will come up.</p>

<p>You’ve basically got three options: 1) Let her poor behavior continue, 2) End the friendship, or 3) Continue to call her on the poor behavior. Which you do will depend on you and how much you’re willing to put up with.</p>

<p>I once had a friend (who became a therapist, incidentally) who I saw separating from me. I suspect her single older sister, with whom she spent a LOT of time, was threatened by our relationship and pushing her to end our friendship. It was difficult, but I confronted this friend about it because this relationship was very valuable to me – and I knew it was to her, too. It’s been about 15 years and we’re still great friends, seeing each other every month for lunch and sometimes more. </p>

<p>If this is really a friendship you value, then I think you need to fight for it, even if that makes you feel uncomfortable. Only you know that. But I hate to see you spending so much energy being ticked at this woman. (((hugs)))</p>

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<p>I quite agree with this. I’ve been following this thread with interest since yesterday because I have been in a similar situation. jym626, you are wasting way too much emotional energy dealing with this woman. She has proven herself to be somewhat unreliable and unthoughtful, to the degree that you are now approaching every encounter with her with a lot of trepidation. It’s very hard to have a relationship with someone who is unpredictable because you feel like you have to mentally brace yourself for every interaction.</p>

<p>I understand how you feel…a long-time friend and neighbor. There is obviously some good that comes from the friendship so it would be difficult to terminate it at this point but if she is leaving you feeling this tied up in knots, you might want to slowly back away from the relationship. Not end it but figure out what situations with her don’t leave you so drained and limit your interactions to those. She is what is known as an emotional vampire. In order to have ongoing relationship with these people, you need to be very assertive, set clear boundaries and then learn to not to let their actions bother you. It’s a hard thing to learn to do but you have to in order to protect yourself and not end up wasting a lot of emotional energy in trying to deal with her.</p>

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<p>Post #138- very nice summary of the situation. </p>

<p>Please don’t feel guilty, jym. ( I sense you are slipping into a guilt mode ;)) Don’t think for a minute that she’s not aware of what she has been doing and how she has treated you. She’s not stupid.</p>

<p>She hasn’t responded, most likely because she knows you’ve called her out and she’s embarrassed and mad. And you did so with such politeness and civility, that she can’t blame you. If she values your friendship as much as you do hers, this should be a turnaround moment for her, and her behavior will change for the better. If she is mainly keeping you around you for what you can do for her, you may be seeing less of her in the future.</p>

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<p>I find it interesting that jym is not worrying that the Saturday dinner will be cancelled, but only that the Friday night show and dinner will be cancelled, based on much experience with this woman’s behavior. The difference? jym has already paid for tickets, and a last-minute (apparently this woman never cancels ahead of time?) cancellation will mean that jym will be either (1) scrambling to find a last-minute replacement or (2) not going at all. In either case, jym will be out the cost of both tickets. The woman has, twice, refused to pay in advance, leaving the financial exposure all on jym. </p>

<p>I know that the tickets are not expensive, we are not talking about millions, thousands, or even hundreds in financial exposure. No one likes to quibble over how costs of restaurant meals are divided. jym is a generous person who does not account for every penny. If she were not this way, then the woman would not have chosen to treat her as she has, to the point that things are so lopsided that even jym is feeling taken advantage of.</p>

<p>I would really take another look at this relationship, jym. I know that she comes through for the rare big event, and she is part of a larger circle of friends, and you must enjoy her company. But you are spending this week anticipating being badly treated next weekend. She has already confirmed that your suspicions about Saturday were correct. You’ve taken action that may have thwarted her plans to avoid coming through with the thank-you dinner she offered. But is this really worth it? And can this behavior really be innocent? If it were innocent, then about half of the mistakes would be in your favor. Why do they always go against you? This is not random.</p>

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<p>Any friendship that generates an 11 page (and counting) thread on CC is suspect! :)</p>

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<p>^^LOL! I now have to wipe coffee off my screen!</p>

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<p>Jym, I have a “friend” that I enjoy having lunch now and then. When we run into each other on the street, we always say that we should have lunch, but neither one follows through because we are busy. Maybe that’s not really why. It’s because I don’t call her to make the plans! conversations with her are always about her kids, her divorce, her job, her life. I enjoy her company and her sense of humor and I’m genuinely interested in hearing about her kids and her life.</p>

<p>Last Monday, she called me on the phone while she was walking past my building. She said that we should stop talking about having lunch and make plans. So, we agreed to have lunch at noon the coming ( last)Friday. We agreed we choose the restaurant that day since we can walk to any number of places. So, Friday arrived. I sent her a text at 11:30 that said “are we still on for lunch?” I never heard back! At 1:30, she called my cell. I did not answer. Then she sent a text “I still want to have lunch” She left a voice mail “um, I guess I might have screwed up. I still want to get together if you are free now” I was at work and lunch break was over. I did not reply to any of her messages because she never apologized, nor did she offer an excuse. She forgot or was busy. I am busy, too. I run a company and my time is valuable. I am not angry at her. I can’t be bothered.</p>

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<p>So, what I am saying is that I realize my relationship with this particular friend has its limitations and I accept that. I respect my time and myself too much to make plans with my friend. I will continue to enjoy our on-the-street conversations and will continue our “we should have lunch” promises, but I will not actually commit to lunch with her again. If I run into her at lunchtime and we go off for a spur of the moment meal, I know we will laugh and enjoy each other’s company. That’s ok with me and won’t leave me feeling hurt or angry.</p>

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<p>BTW-When I went home for lunch (my usual), my husband asked why I wasn’t at lunch with Ms. X. I said that she never responded to my text and he said, “well, there’s a big surprise!” and laughed. He likes her, too, but realizes that it’s all about her all the time! It’s who she is.</p>

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<p>The ISFJ in me is just reeling here…I would be turtling and hiding in my shell at the idea of calling out a friend’s behavior (however deserved!). We just invite friends to come over (for dinner, the weekend…) and don’t care if they reciprocate. Will admit we don’t go out to dinner socially and I have never been on a girls’ weekend. Going out tends to be reserved for date night or taking the guys someplace. </p>

<p>My social skills and assertiveness are clearly lacking.</p>

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<p>I spoke to her briefly on the phone. Neither of us brought up who was paying for what. I simply mentioned that I tried to pick up the theater tickets because I was near the theater (I currently have vouchers but not the assigned seats) but that the theater didnt look open at that hour. I mentioned that we might want to think about dinner reservations (restaurant week is coming up and it gets crowded). She then apparently went ahead and made them for both Fri and Sat night. I admit I had an initial reaction of annoyance because again she didnt ask, she just made a unilateral decision (which is probably fine, but just not how I do things) and then to make matters worse I mixed up the names/locations of the Fri night restaurant and thought it was too far from the theater (there are several restaurants whose names are numbers-- I got them confused). So first I sent a text and then and to apologize for my confusion. I am sure she is now annoyed too, and now I look like a bit of a fool. Oh well, this too shall pass. I suspect she feels that she was being helpful by making the reservations and in the scheme of things its fine. However, since I’ve been annoyed about all this and havent had a chance to finish processing it all, I found my reaction to be one of annoyance that she’d done it without asking. But on this one I am probably overreacting.</p>

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<p>JVM-</p>

<p>I understand the trouble this is giving you, you sound a lot in many ways like my wife and myself, neither of is particularly confrontational and when it comes to friends and such we give the benefit of the doubt. When going out, we both go along with the idea of splitting the bill evenly and we don’t keep tabs on who owes what. If I help a friend work on his house, I rarely if ever ask reciprocation, it is the way I am, so I understand. </p>

<p>That said, what I see is a pattern of someone who frankly doesn’t have a clue what friendship means and seems to think, for whatever reasons, it is about getting as much out of a friendship as possible, to make it one sided. Even if it is unconscious (she prob learned that behavior from her own parents), she has been allowed to get away with such behavior time and again. The cynical side of me tells me she arranged for the dinner to be a ‘birthday dinner’ to do exactly what you fear, end up it being you paying in effect your share, while ostensibly it being about ‘thanking you’. From your description, it sounds like the friendship is pretty one side, with you taking most of the blows, the low side, whatever. Reminds me a lot of certain family members, who would routinely ask for favors and the like, but would never reciprocate, especially one now thankfully deceased aunt (one summer I tutored my cousin, then in college, who had been struggling with courses like physics, I gave him a lot of precious time and instead of his usual D’s and F’s the kid got a B+ in the classes…never got a thank you, and I heard from another family member that she said something like “well, I don’t know what I was supposed to thank him for, it wasn’t like he got an A or anything”…and no, I wasn’t paid…). </p>

<p>My suggestion would be to see what happens, how they handle the now restasked meal, and if it plays out as you think, rethink the relationship. I liked what another poster said, when they said if you want to be friends with someone know the limitations and either accept them or not (I couldn’t accept this from any friend, but that is me)…friendship is supposed to be like tennis, something going both ways, to me a frienship that goes one way isn’t worth much; not tit for tat both ways, but appreciation there are two people in the relationship…if they once again act like this, then maybe it would be better to decline anything that involves that level of interaction with them. To be honest, they sound like the kind of people where if the circumstances were reversed, they would likely bow out of helping your family in a time of need, they sound far too conceited and self centered to ever think of the other way around…</p>

<p>Your friend fits the bill of another wonderful Yiddish term, a schnurrer (I am spelling it phonetically, prob way off), which is basically someone who takes and takes and never wants to give</p>

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<p>I’d spell it schnorrer, musicprnt.</p>