<p>NSM, Great Post. (#60) HYP are hardly “missing out” on future leaders, scholars, producers, of the groups already well represented.</p>
<p>epiphany,</p>
<p>Great posts. As far as #54, Vonnegut said in “Mother Night”: “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”</p>
<p>JHS, great post. I agree. If America can adopt some of the Asian family values we will all be better off. Who says someone obedient and committed to their family cannot eventually become a great and courageous leader? One might argue that someone with a rebellious spirit, who manages to curb that rebellious spirit in the service of something they care for, has probably the best source material for leadership.</p>
<p>I think all of us could use some of family values and discipline that Asian families tend to have. I sure could use a hefty dose of it here, I can tell you. But I don’t think they need to be told that these values have merit and results; they know that. And I agree that it can be insulting and useless to try to convert them to “our way” which is doubtful in success rates anyways. I would just make some suggestions to improve the quality of life without impeding the success rate that these families have. Ain’t know way you are going to convince them of school match most of the time. They want the HPY. As they acclimate, they may start opening their eyes to other opportunities–I know that where we lived, the allure of the best college in our city which is a top 25 school, but certainly not as well known as the famous trio, attracted many who saw the advantage of keeping their kids home, as well. For many families that became the Holy Grail over HPY. But some of the cultural practices are stressful and harmful and unnecessary given the state of elite school admissions and where there kids will be in the applicant pool. Having the kids help with work, is something that can benefit the whole family, and the application, for instance. I know a family where the husband, a hard working immigrant was adament that his kids did not dirty their hands doing his work. He wanted them to study, study, study. He was dumbfounded when he found out that the school was going on a Habitat for HUmanity project where his kid was ging to be doing some dirty work, and that this sort of thing is encouraged by elite colleges. Given that his income bracket is not one to categorize his family as disadvantaged, and his kids have been very advantaged since he made sure he took the brunt of the years going up the ladder, the studying though valuable, alone is not going to get him into a top college. He’d better be doing something other than studying and had he been helping his father in this tough, hands on business, it would have looked pretty danged good on the resume, in additon to helping his father who has a chronic problem in keeping employees in thsis type of back breaking work. Instead he goes with the school along with 50 others to the Habitat for Humanity event.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t want to become like an Asian family, nor do I assume that Asians want to become like me. But, whatever turns you on, as they say…</p>
<p>I think that the larger concern I have is that this thread & its premise are a little misleading: it assumes that if an immigrant wanted to & could show or a acquire the named features in the original post, that an admission to HYP would be much more likely. I don’t think so, not from the published & reported results. There are immigrants and non-immigrants who have demonstrated the features described, but have not obtained so much as a waitlist from H, Y, or P. Often, that is because those students are living in the “wrong” (over-HYP-populated) region.</p>
<p>The way to HYP is to do all those things but then
(1) hope that HYP mutiplies by 2, 3, or 4, the size of the U – which likely won’t happen, or,
(2) move.</p>
<p>P.S.: Students from the N.E. (definitely including Asians) who apply to LAC’s in the West are achieving better admissions results than those who confine their searches to LAC’s in the NE. Same profile, same student: DIFFERENT SUPPLY & DEMAND. </p>
<p>If information or education is needed (re college admissions), I suspect the better emphasis would be supply/demand economics & a free market economy as that applies to U.S. Universities.</p>
<p>Nearly everything i’ve ever done well at has been motivated entirely by love-- therefore, I was pleasing myself 100% in the doing.</p>
<p>The ‘obey your parents’ mentality kills some of that ‘please yourself’ spirit. </p>
<p>The trick is to combine the ‘please yourself’ spirit with the ‘work like a dog’ work ethic. </p>
<p>Of course the more you love something the more working hard feels like fun.</p>
<p>I agree with epiphany’s earlier post, for so many reasons–
You are limiting your children right off the bat if your your sights are set (only) on HYPS. Assuming the students will be accomplished, driven, enthusiastic. etc, there are dozens of schools out there that could start them on their way to whatever it is they’re aiming for in life. If HYPS are truly what they have in mind, then fine, but it’s important to keep lines of communication between parent and child open along the way.</p>
<p>Harvard Class of 2010:
Asian American 20.1%
Hispanics American 9.5%
African American 10.2%
(a large percentage of Af Am students at Harvard are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants)</p>
<p>I also know a few new Caucasian students who are immigrants.</p>
<p>US Census: 2000
Asian Americans 4%
Hispanic Americans 13.4%
African Americans 12.7%</p>
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</p>
<p>Bei Da. But while it may be true that certain Chinese universities force students to learn golf, it’s also true that it’s a necessary skill. My two older cousins and a family friend all picked up golf in college because they recognized that it was necessary for them to succeed in their professions (two of them wound up at JP Morgan and the other at Morgan Stanley).</p>
<p>My first post in this part of the forum - to start off, I’m not a parent (I’m a senior at MIT; maybe my opinion doesn’t count since I’m not HYPS, but whatever. I didn’t even apply to half of those). I’m from an immigrant family - I was born in China and later moved to the US. I never learned to value American culture - I definitely value Chinese culture a lot more and personally find America terribly lacking in culture, if anything (just stating my opinion here; don’t mean to be offensive). I also know there are really strong culture-based pride at MIT, from Asian to Hispanic to African American to American - I really don’t think it matters.</p>
<p>I just want to say, for crying out loud please let your child live their life. Teach your kid well, yes. Discipline them, yes. But don’t take it overboard. Let them do what they love doing, be it sports, music, debate, math, whatever - more importantly, show them that you love what you’re doing. I think immigrant families are at an inherent advantage, in that the parents struggle through a lot to get to where they are, and the kid sees that. Raising your kid by giving them a good example is the best way to go, and I think that’s why Asian and/or immigrant families are successful.</p>
<p>I didn’t know what the SATs were until I started high school - I still got a 1580 by my junior year (and no, there’s no need to get a 1600 to get into top colleges. My oldest cousin got a 1570 and went to Harvard; my second oldest got a 1500 and went to Stanford, and the fact that my parents memorized all this and pressured me with it did not help). There’s no need to start sending your kid to SAT prep while they’re in middle school. That’s not to say that my parents let me do whatever I want - as a kid, I wasn’t allowed to watch a lot of TV, but my dad did get me a Nintendo one Christmas. But that’s not why I became a good student - I became a good student because I came to America while my parents were getting their Masters and PhDs, and I saw how hard they worked and I saw how that helped them move from poverty line to upper middle class.</p>
<p>For the record, I had to Google HYPS, and the fact that there is a defined acronym for this sickens me, and not only because MIT was left out. =P</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, Shikari, I think “HYPS” probably includes MIT, at least it should. But SHYMP, or PHYSM, is not as good an acronym (and those have things in the wrong order, anyway). So HYPS it is, with maybe a silent, invisible M on the end (and also maybe a silent, invisible C to cover for Columbia and Cal Tech).</p>
<p>I always thought a good acronym would be PSYCH. Kind of appropriate, don’t you think? The C could stand for Chicago, Columbia or Cal Tech. </p>
<p>JHS, what is the significance of the order? HYPS is not in alphabetical order:-)</p>