17yo rising senior boy - not grown up yet, working on it. Got good (good enough) weighted HS GPA doing the minimum (but with some AP/Honors mixed in) & great SAT/ACT without studying. Has been focusing mostly on athletics & video games.
Has opportunity for nearly free University of Toledo due to his athletics/academic combo - then will have $90k+ LEFT OVER (in college fund from parents) for a MBA somewhere afterwards.
or CAN go to Columbia (only because of being a good athlete & good enough student & smart) Columbia after 4 years he would leave with $35-100k debt after undergrad (depending on pās income in these years) - AND that after depleting what Pās have saved for college.
Due to covid, the D1 opportunities for 2022ās are very limited & these are the current choices realistically. It probably wonāt get any better given the timing - so letās focus on these 2 please.
One parent says itās a no brainer - go to UT, get more mature, get good grades & make the most of his sport - Then when sports are over take the $ left over to pay for (& focus on) a great MBA, networking & a job with my then greater maturity. Thinks that UT - given the right course load & grades - could be springboard to a fine business school from which a no-debt MBA would be very doable & over is therefore the way smarter choice.
But the other parent thinks the Columbia opportunity is so great it canāt be ignored, at any cost.
What do you think? CAN UToledo be a springboard into a great MBA program if one was a D1 athlete while there?
Will Columbia be a pressure cooker?
Isnāt it better to have no debt and a great debt-free MBA ? Focus more on good grades at UT & his athletics, then focus on MBA/life after that?
Or is he better off at Columbia with debt - then more debt for an MBA ? But have that āpedigreeā ? (not saying thatās important - but clearly it is to some)
Sincere thanks for any responses. (please no flaming if possible)
Graduating with no debt and potentially having $ to fund an MBA from a good program is enticing.
How much debt are you talking for Columbia? $35K to $100K is a wide range, you should be able to better estimate it right now, because the first two years are basically known (2020 financials will apply to your first year, 2021 to second year). Is 2021 income up or down from 2020? Are 2022 and 2023 projected to be up or down?
Does the Columbia core curriculum appeal to you? Columbia academics can be intense, have you talked to current team members about how they balance everything?
I donāt understand the hypothetical; does the student have a promise from a Columbia coach? Otherwise the answer is pretty simple, Columbia is a huge longshot for him.
The differences between Columbia and Toledoā50% graduation rate, 50% commuter students, 4% of undergrads with SATs > 1400āare obviously massive. Columbia is probably not the first place Iād recommend to a student who is as casual about academics as you are portraying here, and if he is good enough to get stacked athletic/academic scholarship money at a D1 school, there are many others he should be able to choose from. Iād add other schools to this list, is what Iām saying.
Starting with $100k & Columbia could range from $35k to 50k depending on parents income which is increasing every year since 2020 where it was very low due to pandemic.
Thus the range of leftover costs between $35K & 100k
With the $100 K remaining after UT undergrad (vs all of that spent on C) and good grades (3.5+) could get into a very respectable MBA program. Is that realistic thinking?
Plus, would like to be able to enjoy senior year of high school a little more & also undergrad, which seems definitely could be a big pressure cooker at Columbia.
A few thoughts around Columbia - I can not speak to Toledo or your debt comfort level.
Is NYC the right environment for your son ? Has he attended an admissions presentation to hear about the core curriculum directly from the school not just researched online? Would Columbia be the right fit for him without athletics ? (injury, not compatible with coach or team and decides to stop his sport). Does the Columbia team commute to their training facility and would that extra commute time be an issue for him and the need for more study/down time? Is there a major at Columbia that is appealing? What majors are represented on this team? Does he WANT TO do the work - ie: read the Iliad over the summer (assigned reading) vs being able to do the work - big difference and his classmates will expect that he wants to do the work.
Hard for most kids at this age to know their long term career goals and if it would even need/desire an MBA? Could have an employer that pays for his MBA or partial too .
Only comment on Toledo, what happens at Toledo financially if he stops his sport and/or loses his academic merit? Is it worth paying full price and what does that do to your college savings?
Personally, I think Columbia is an amazing opportunity - IF your child really wants to be there for the work and city location and sports is what gets him there. You know your child best and would he thrive in that environment?
If heās up to the task of studying in college, go to Columbia! Toledo is D1 and will push athletics over academics. To get into a top MBA program, heāll need excellent grades and GMAT. If he doesnāt want to work too hard, go to Toledo and enjoy the football and classes. Make sure to wait three years before getting an MBA.
I have a friend whoās son faced the same dilemma. Was an A student his first 2 years in HS but grades dropped off some as he became a basketball star and a BMOC. Grades and SAT + basketball were good enough to get him into Columbia. My friend had absolutely NO money, but his son went Ivy for 4 years.
With the experience of Columbia College seminars, he fell in love with academics and became a serious student. He met his wife at Columbia, a member of the womenās basketball team. Heās had a successful career since, married his college sweetheart, and they now have 2 kids.
Just one studentās story. I canāt tell you what to do. Best of luck trying to figure this one out. Itās a real dilemma.
I am not sure the way you are thinking about Business School is quite right. Monetarily - sure.
But as far as career progression itās not as straightforward.
As a rule, one needs a decent amount of work experience before business school.
Often future employers will āpigeonholeā business school grads to the industries they were in prior to business school.
Business Schools are often used as a way to try to āresetā the career than may have dead-ended.
So to me, the ābusiness school routeā is not the same as the Law route or Medical route where itās deterministic - i.e. undergrad ==> grad school. Business students paths are a lot more āmeanderingā.
Columbia is a tough school to study at - in fact I know a couple of kids who couldnāt handle the work load and dropped out (both in engineering). So not exactly the best school to ācoast throughā. But if you think the boy will be able to handle it - Iād recommend going there, as it will open a lot of opportunities.
Can the parents not pay their EFC? Why would the cost of Columbia be debt and does that cover the 27k federal loans or parent loans only?
Has he received a promise from a Columbia coach and been asked to send his app for a pre-read?
For an MBA, he would typically be expected to work for a few years after his college degree.
For ātopā MBAs a GPA higher than 3.5 from Toledo would be expected along with a quantified positive impact at his job.
Neither college sounds like the right fit: he would be allowed to underachieve/coast at UT, working well below his ability OR he would be in a super intellectual environment, with expected heavy readings taken more seriously than his sport.
Is there no opportunity within NESCAC? What about Vabderbilt? Emory?.. All likely to challenge him intellectually without the core and its associated culture?
I know many who proceeded straight to MBA after undergrad - though I do understand many people go to work first then take an āexecutive MBAā type of thing. But, in my experience, it seems there is some of each.
Generally for the top tier MBA programs (whether M7, or top 12/15), it is difficult to get an acceptance with less than 3 years work experienceā¦the thinking is that students directly out of undergrad would have relatively little to add to classroom discussion and group projects, and they might not be able to put some of the educational content into context.
What is Columbiaās policy on submitting financial aid documents every year? Often the schools will guarantee the package for all 4 years unless there is a huge change in income. They might be willing to work with you especially if you had ācovid loss of incomeā and high expenses.
Does he feel the same about both teams? Does he like the style of play at one school better than the other, the conference schedule? NYC or Toledo (and not kidding, some people might really not like NYC and want more of a campus feel of a school like Toledo)?
I normally would vote for no debt, but Columbia might be too good to pass up. These schools are so very different that it is hard for others to make that decision for you.
Columbia will have tons of tutors and academic support staff. They wonāt admit you if they think you canāt handle the work.
I know a guy who is doing an online MBA with his undergrad thatās ranked around 130. The MBA admits nearly all that apply. He waited a year tops after a solid job in an undesirable location. Doing the MBA mightāve helped show an employer that heās working to improve himself and now the new employer will cover the cost. Heās in a new job in a more desirable location so all good.
For a top MBA (like top 20), one may need a 3.8 GPA from a regional or lower ranked university. Plus get the average GMAT in the low 700s. Top MBAs want students from a wide variety of backgrounds but you still have to be very impressive.
A Masters in Finance, Accounting, Supply Chain, Data Analytics, etc can give one a boost but donāt do a traditional MBA until three or more years out. EMBAs are for people 10 or so years out. Maybe the employer will pay for that.
Needs to be a school that he has been recruited to for his sport.
Columbia has done a pre-read.
Parents are not paying - overall - any more than what they have saved already. EFC far exceeds what is realistic IMO. Though would prefer this conversation not digress thereā¦
Okā¦my opinion. If both schools are affordable, and he is accepted at bothā¦I would choose Columbia. Here is my thinking. I understand he wants to play his sport in college. Butā¦what happens if he gets injured or decides he actually doesnāt want to continue that commitment (especially at the Division 1 level)?
Academically, Columbia is a far stronger school.
If you were saying that Columbia is close to not affordable, I might have a different opinion. But since you say this isnāt the case, I would choose the stronger school.
Simply putā¦if you took the athletics out of the mixā¦which college would he choose?
