Touched a sore point...Marble Game Theory

Parent Cafe
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<p>In a thread about a dad blaming a mom for a child being waitlisted, I mentioned a “marble theory” that my sister (a therapist) told me about. In response, my PM box has exploded with people telling me about their stories. I guess this “theory” applies to many families/couples/relationships, so I thought I’d post here for those who don’t mind discussing in a thread. (those who still want to communicate privately, that’s OK! :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>Many felt that after reading about this theory, many of the “nonsense” situations in their lives became more understandable.</p>

<p>So, I thought I’d post here, so others could discuss, and/or see if this theory explains any odd situations in their lives, etc. </p>

<p>These were the posts…</p>

<p>From the OP:

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<p>**He lost the rest. **</p>

<p>I missed this post about his financial dealings. Let me share with you something that my sister (a therapist) has said many times. In marriages (and other relationships), there is often a “marble game” going on. </p>

<p>At the beginning, each person is perceived to have roughly the same number of marbles. However, as the relationship progresses, and one spouse clearly emerges as being weaker in decision-making, natural intelligence, and/or “walking around smarts,” then marbles are lost by that person, and the other spouse gains marbles. </p>

<p>In this case, the H lost a whole bunch of marbles when he foolishly invested their money. The wife gained a whole bunch of marbles with her decisions. This created a huge imbalance of “marbles” because of the long-lasting implications of that one mistake. This mistake wasn’t something that just caused a minor ripple in the family, such as denting a car or bouncing a check. This H has to live with the fact that not only did he make a very serious mistake, but his wife’s decisions were not only better, but they “saved” the family from absolute disaster. </p>

<p>Once you have one spouse with “lots of marbles” (in this case, the wife) and you have another spouse who perceives himself as having fewer marbles, then you have a situation where the H is going to “lash out” and criticize any imaginable thing in a way to try to “take away” some of the other’s marble stash. </p>

<p>So, even when other rational people would say that the H has no reason to criticize the wife about the waitlist situation, the H just sees it as an opportunity to say, “see, everything YOU do doesn’t work out perfectly either.” </p>

<p>Also…since such a person perceives himself as having fewer marbles, it may take him a LONG time (maybe never) to admit that he was wrong to criticize (because that means losing MORE marbles). </p>

<p>Anyway…once my sister told us this theory, a whole lot of situations began to make sense (situations with unreasonable relatives, nutty teachers, stubborn children, etc). </p>

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<p>Seriously, though, I do think that men do have a harder time dealing with an inbalance of marbles when they perceive themselves as having less because of our culture’s perception that men are supposed to be the (gag) more logical, smarter sex. When men feel that they don’t have more marbles, they can feel emasculated…so some will just be petty…and some will more seriously lash out. </p>

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<p>(in response to someone who thought that the person who earns the most money has the most marbles…)</p>

<p>“Having more marbles” can be related to who earns the most/all of the money, but it often isn’t. It is more often about which person is perceived to be the one with the most common sense, bettter decision-making skills, more well-read, has more varied interests… so knows a lot about a lot of things, etc (which makes the other spouse feel more inadequate, hence the lashing out.)</p>

<p>It can also occur when one spouse has an addiction (drinking, gambling, etc) or infidelity issues that has had negative affects on the marriage/family, so that spouse viciously nitpicks the other spouse so as to say…“you’re not perfect either…you make mistakes, too” (even though those mistakes/flaws are far more minor and have insignificant negative affects on the family). </p>

<p>Again, this isn’t to discourage anyone from PMing me. :)</p>

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<p>The right thing at the right time. Thank you.</p>

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<p>This theory seems to help a lot of people understand weird conflicts that are going on in their lives… with spouses, kids, co-workers, relatives, siblings, in-laws, parents, etc. (oh yes, with parents! Parents of adult children do not want to admit that their adult children may have more marbles than they do. )</p>

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<p>Ok…I’m getting more PMs…but no one wants to comment or say anything? I understand the desire to keep painful info in PMs, but doesn’t anyone have a comment that can be shared?</p>

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<p>It makes perfect sense. I’m very aware of it in the work place and always have a good mental image of how many marbles I have and how many my boss has! As far as my husband goes…well, he thinks he has a lot of the marbles but occasionally I earn a whopping boulder and that holds me for a long time :)</p>

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<p>So what does your therapist sister say on how to rectify that? How does the partner with the most marbles stop being the constant brunt of attack from the marble-short partner? Or are things destined to get worse every time the marble-heavy partner does something right, even if that “right” thing is being extra-sensitive to the marble-short partner’s needs?</p>

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<p>I would like to comment but it’ll be to just stir the pot as per others observation and not as a meaningful discussion.</p>

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<p>I think the day you’ll stop keeping record of the marbles the problem will end. This is a psychological problem to begin with. If you try to have the upper hand in marriage you’ll loose the relationship. </p>

<p>You’ll find numerous posts that will tell students to do best and don’t worry about results. I think marriage is one relation where one should apply that. Do your best to make the relation work …</p>

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<p>I wasn’t speaking about myself, POIH – so “you’ll” is not an appropriate response to my question. I’m not married and that wasn’t the issue in my marriage when I was. The question I asked concerns a situation where your response doesn’t address the situation – no record keeping going on that I can see. </p>

<p>In any case, my question was directed to mom2collegekids.</p>

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<p>and here we go again…</p>

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<p>I have more “thinking ahead and preparing for things to come marbles,” and my husband and kids are always telling me “don’t tell me what to do.”</p>

<p>How do you handle having more marbles in this area and being respected enough to be able to give advice without being rebuffed?</p>

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<p>I opened this thread because my S is a math major and instead, find it’s about my parents.</p>

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<p>I guess the marble theory makes sense as long as it’s the only game in town</p>

<p>That is, as long as the entire range of strengths and weaknesses and multiple decisions in many different areas is reduced to a single metric, the Marble Game can be way of figuring out who is wining and who is losing</p>

<p>And that is the root of the problem: looking at how the individuals are doing compared to one another instead of looking at how the Team is doing</p>

<p>So, if the Marble Theory helps to explain interpersonal behaviors, that means that the interpersonal realtionships being studied are in trouble</p>

<p>So the answer to questbest is that it doesn’t matter that you have all those best thinking ahead ideas, your family doesn’t want them, so they really aren’t worth as much as you think they are :-)</p>

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<p>I am a little troubled by this theory, since I assume those with whom I am very close feel the same way I do: that it is absolutely necessary not to keep score if you want to feel connected and on the same page?</p>

<p>How does one get out of this habit of score keeping in relationships? Or is it maybe somehow desirable to keep score?</p>

<p>I understand keeping score with casual acquaintances and business associates, just because you may need to limit interactions or find a new way to communicate if it becomes too imbalanced?</p>

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<p>*So what does your therapist sister say on how to rectify that? How does the partner with the most marbles stop being the constant brunt of attack from the marble-short partner? *My sister (the therapist) and I talk a LOT about this issue because it comes up so much - even with outside family members, co-workers, etc. </p>

<p>My sister and I have had MANY talks about this issue because, as you indicate, it can also come up between co-workers, extended family members, friends…and definitely siblings!!!</p>

<p>If the “marble-lite” person has a serious inferiority complex, you can’t do much…that person needs therapy to get over his/her issues. But, in a more normal situation, you have to make the other person feel that his/her opinions are valued, listened to, and not immediately dismissed. This can be hard to do if the person is seriously lacking in common-sense, but be very cautious not to be the type who can’t “suffer fools gladly.”</p>

<p>The “marble-lite” person often lacks confidence and wisdom. That’s fine if they look at you as an authority figure (their doctor, lawyer, etc) and they EXPECT you to know more than they do. However, when the relationship isn’t like that, and it’s supposed to more like “equals” (like co-workers or spouses), then the marble-lite person is going to get nasty or passive-agressive. It’s even worse when the relationship isn’t equal (like boss/employee or parent/child), yet the subordinate is perceived to have more marbles. </p>

<p>Hasn’t each of us been frustrated when we tell a parent to do something and they dismiss it, yet when someone ELSE tells them to do the SAME thing, the parent acts like that the smartest idea they’ve ever heard!!!??? That’s the marble game theory going on. The parent doesn’t have that “marble-conflict” going on with that “other person.” So, the parents feels that he/she isn’t giving up any marbles (showing weakness) by following that "other person’s advice. (and, we all just shake our heads and wonder.)</p>

<p>So…as long as the person isn’t seriously damaged self-esteem-wise, you can try to “give them marbles” whenever you can. Try to take their advice when you can (or at least not let them know that you think their ideas are silly or won’t work). When they do something wise, compliment them (not patronizing). Identify their strengths and have them share them with you. If they have a talent (such as cooking, fixing things, etc), ask if they can teach it to you. Celebrate their strengths.</p>

<p>Someone asked me in PM (this won’t reveal anything confidential) about how to deal with immediate family members who criticize the parent for being “too perfect” because that parent is a good planner and tries to use a lot of foresight. </p>

<p>I get teased for being too much the “planner.” I try to foresee possible “roadblocks” and avoid them. (I was a manufacturing planner for years, so it’s in my blood). What I do from time to time is go with my family’s (unplanned) plans and let them see the results. </p>

<p>For instance…If we need to buy a particular, unusual item, I will call ahead to see if the store even carries it. However, my family doesn’t do that. They’ll jump in the car and waste a lot of time/gasoline driving from place to place trying to find that rare item. I let them waste time/money because it’s a small price to pay to let them see for themselves that their way is not the best way (no, I don’t rub it in at the time…but when they later criticize my ways, I can calmly say that I would rather do this then spend all afternoon looking for Item Fill-in-the-blank.) </p>

<p>It’s important NOT to always save them from themselves. Let them experience the “pain” from their lack of foresight and planning. Obviously, you can’t do that with super serious matters or serious money matters, but you can do it with issues that won’t have long-lasting repercussions. </p>

<p>So, if my kids say that they’re going to go to a popular movie, I don’t chime in and recommend that they buy their tix ahead online. I let them show up at the last minute (their habit) and then find out that all tix are sold. That’s the only way they’ll learn to plan ahead. And, it’s no skin off my back. </p>

<p>I will be talking to my sister later today, so I’ll try to get more feedback from her. :)</p>

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<p>POIH, I think you are missing the point. When one partner is keeping score and feels like they are losing, they often resort to a lot of bad behavior. Even if the other partner doesn’t want to play the game, they don’t know how to get the badly behaved partner to stop it. My ex-H is a classic example of this. I had no idea how to “give him more marbles”, which he badly wanted. Believe me, I didn’t want 'em. I didn’t want to play… but he couldn’t see the relationship in any other way.</p>

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<p>I always liked marbles- no literally!
The funny thing is when I find marbles in the soil when I am digging, my H says they are * his!*</p>

<p>I will agree- this explains a lot.
Will try some of your tips mom2collegekids</p>

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<p>This makes a lot of sense and explains why people can get very defensive over seemly meaningless stuff. Or want to blame the other person for everything whether it was their responsibly or not. I’ll admit I’ve seen it in action in my own relationships.</p>

<p>A similar theory is the ‘emotional bank account’ theory of relationships. We all are constantly making deposits and withdrawals from our emotional bank accounts with other people. A relationship with a high balance is able to withstand negative interactions better than one that is running on empty. For example, you and you boss enjoy a cordial relationship. He frequently gives you compliments, you joke around, etc. (all deposits), so your emotional bank account balance is pretty high. One day, he criticizes your work in a way that stings a bit. If you have a decent balance in the account, you are likely to shrug it off and think, “He must be having a bad day.” On the other hand if most of your interactions are negative, you are likely to think (about the same piece of criticism), “What a jerk! I need to find a new job.”</p>

<p>Put this in context of a marriage and you can see what would happen. Spouses that generally have positive interactions can weather the occasional negative one but when most of the interaction are neutral or negative and there is little to no bank account, even trivial annoyances can blow up into big fights. The trick is to figure our what puts $$ in your spouse’s emotional bank account and then do them. (The five languages of Love also touches on this).</p>

<p>They say if you want a happy marriage you need five positive interactions for every one negative.</p>

<p>Thanks for posting this Mom2collegekids.</p>

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<p>m2ck - you might also consider that what is important to you: getting the product, service, movie in the most efficient manner may not be that important to your family. From your short description, I suspect you have extremely different Myers-Briggs personality types. Where it sounds like you are interested in logic and efficiency, it sounds like your family is more interested in socializing and interaction. Going out on an adventure to find a rare or unusual product may be like a treasure hunt for them to spend time together and enjoy each other’s company. Also, “learning their lesson” about arriving too late to the movies may in fact be reinforcing the lesson that they get to interact some more, pick another movie AND go out another time to see the movie they just missed. This doubles their social time. Just another point of view - impossible to really tell from a message board.</p>

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<p>There are lots of ways to not play or return the marbles. I might not be able to help without knowing the root cause. But let say a partner accuse another of making a mistake causing the child being rejected or waitlisted at a college.
Most people try to defend their position even if they have done their best. But if you understand that the other person might be trying to play the marble game then acknowledge the fault and try to ask how the other person would have done the same thing. Try to listen and end the argument there itself.</p>

<p>Once the accusation is acknowledged the marbles will go back to the person and the topic will never come up again. If the accusation is not acknowledged then it will come back again and again.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if I’m able to convey in clarity my thoughts in this matter but I think if you don’t want to play you can survive without playing or can return the marbles if you think you have more in the relationship.</p>

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<p>POIH, rest assured that I was not asking for your help, nor do I have any interest in sharing any root cause information with you. It would not be a fruitful discussion, based upon your past posts. I was asking the OP.</p>