<p>intparent: I don’t think any one other than you yourself can help you in making your relation works.
Still there is a theory behind reaching an optimum solution to any problem. If you will never entertain an out of the box idea or smothing that is orthogonal to your thinking or in technical terms a solution out side of the local domain then you will never reach a real optimum solution.</p>
<p>If a person “acknowledges the fault” when in fact there was no fault, that person puts themselves in the position of allowing themselves to be the recipient of misdirected shame and blame. While it avoids a conflict, it provides tacit agreement of the distorted perception (the “blame”) and puts the recipient of the blame in a subservient position by acquiescing to it, and may imply agreement of the blame/fault when it is inappropriate and/or inaccurate. This is often the underlying behavior/mentality in an emotionally and/or physically abusive relationship.</p>
<p>Also, if a person feels insecure deep down inside, they weill continue to emotionally beat down the other person in order to feel superior (to compensate of the insecurity) and to feel they have risen above the other person. Doesn’t matter how many marbles they have-- they well never feel they have enough, and feel they don’t have the power so will continue to put the other person down in order to grab the power they dont feel they have.</p>
<p>** People are often domineering or controlling to compensate for perceived lack thereof</p>
<p>jym626, you have definitely hit on something here. After a while I felt like a trained seal, trying to figure out ways to “give back marbles” and dodge the conflict inherent in “the game”. It is exhausting, but it is your “normal” if you do it 24x7. Made more difficult as you try to keep your kids from getting dragged into it as well. In some cases, you can’t apply game theory to resolve relationship conflicts. It is due to a much deeper emotional problem on the part of the person who is so concerned about the marbles.</p>
<p>It must be exhausting, intparent, because if you are successful at something that feels threatening to them, and if you don’t accomplish something (in their eyes) you are berated. You can’t win. And often, no matter what you do, it is never enough. Gets old, and you will, hopefully, start to realize that you didn’t sign up for another round of this stuff. Get out of the ring and let them shadow box.</p>
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<p>The point is not “acknowledge the fault” but “acknowledge the complaint” and resting it or putting an end to it.
When the same point is revived again then the one can point that it has been put to rest.</p>
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<p>If the relationship is that bad then don’t you think it will be better to end the relation than drag it?
I thought we are talking about normal relation where these things can occur on a temporary basis.</p>
<p>Oh, I am out of the ring, jym626. The ex just remarried, and is now sparring with a new partner. His 3rd marriage, will probably end up going the same way his first two did, as his marble collecting behavior does not seem to have changed.</p>
<p>POIH, I do not think the OP is talking about an occasional event in a marriage. If the disagreements are only occasional, then I don’t think the game of marbles is really going on. She is talking about when the dumbest things routinely get blown up into big arguments, and one party is mystified over what triggers it. It is the other party feeling like they lost another marble…</p>
<p>One of my favorite lines is “the complaint department is closed”. The original post in the “other” thread was about more than a complaint. If someone “complains” with the “shoulda , woulda, couldas” (you should have done this, you could have done that…) that is more than complaining. Complaining would be something like “oh its so unfair that its so hard to get into Harvard” whereas “you didn’t work hard enough to get prodigal child in” is blaming .</p>
<p>intparent: Ok, in that case I think there is no other way but to get out of the relation.</p>
<p>m2ck – You may be a ‘hunter’ in a family of ‘gatherers’. </p>
<p>Hunters go out and wait for their specific kill…if they are too late or too early, they go hungry. They hunker down by the watering hole for their prey to come to them. They are quieter and can stay still (say, in front of a computer) for a long time. They serve the community by organizing and finding the framework for bigger ‘kills’. Like researching the right place to buy a refrigerator rather than just visiting different stores. They like to be certain before they throw their spears. </p>
<p>Gatherers go out and seek what they need wherever they can find it. They wander around, seemingly aimlessly, talking amongst themselves. They stop at this berry bush or that bookstore, then go on to another. They are not focused like hunters but they often bring back surprising benefits to the community…like unadvertised specials. They flip channels a lot looking always for something better. Spontaneity doesn’t bother them because they trust that they will find something good; if not today, then tomorrow. </p>
<p>A ‘hunter-gatherer’ relationship can work if everyone is patient and understands the different benefits each style can bring.</p>
<p>*you might also consider that what is important to you: getting the product, service, movie in the most efficient manner may not be that important to your family. From your short description, I suspect you have extremely different Myers-Briggs personality types. Where it sounds like you are interested in logic and efficiency, it sounds like your family is more interested in socializing and interaction. Going out on an adventure to find a rare or unusual product may be like a treasure hunt for them to spend time together and enjoy each other’s company. *</p>
<p>Paying3…you’re very right about the different Myers-Briggs. My H and older S are nearly identical M-B…and opposite of me. Younger son is more like me. </p>
<p>However, my H and older S are NOT the more social ones…LOL…they’re the more quiet/academic types. They just do NOT have the “planning gene” at all. They tend to procrastinate and fly by the seat of their pants. </p>
<p>*When one partner is keeping score and feels like they are losing, they often resort to a lot of bad behavior. Even if the other partner doesn’t want to play the game, they don’t know how to get the badly behaved partner to stop it. My ex-H is a classic example of this. I had no idea how to “give him more marbles”, which he badly wanted. Believe me, I didn’t want 'em. I didn’t want to play… but he couldn’t see the relationship in any other way. *</p>
<p>Intparent…</p>
<p>You’re exactly right. The person with the most marbles doesn’t really want to play the game and would gladly give marbles away if they could. The “marble-lite” person is the one keeping score, not the other way around. </p>
<p>A friend of mine had this experience. She has a masters degree (successful Speech Pathologist) and her H only graduated from high school and had a modest job (red flag already). From the get-go, he perceived her as having more marbles. To make matters worse, she came from a wealthy family…and financially benefited immensely from it (she was the only heir). Her H felt very emasculated by the fact that she had been given so much money. While he didn’t respond in a verbal way, he responded in an unfaithful way…repeatedly. He also lied constantly to her. And, when they did divorce, he refused to pay child support because he felt that she had enough money already. She didn’t really expect any, but the fact that he had no interest in providing any financial support (not even holiday/bday gifts…or college) for his children was telling.</p>
<p>“Love keeps no record of wrongs.” 
Cures alot of marble problems.</p>
<p>“This theory seems to help a lot of people understand weird conflicts that are going on in their lives… with spouses, kids, co-workers, relatives, siblings, in-laws, parents, etc. (oh yes, with parents! Parents of adult children do not want to admit that their adult children may have more marbles than they do.”</p>
<p>This is a really helpful theory at a time I’m witnessing bad behavior (once again) by my parents. I personally hope my children end up with far more marbles than I’ll ever have.</p>
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<p>Wow, the marble theory and jym’s post certainly explain a lot of what has been going on at H’s workplace. Someone under my H was appointed to a position now above H and we just found out that he had been harboring some ill will towards H due to what this colleague perceived as a somewhat negative evaluation about 10 years ago. Now H says it was certainly not negative (coworker received promotions and tenure), but he did criticize a few things about his teaching. And guess what? The guy said he actually did take those criticisms and improve on them (he told this to someone else), but apparently kept the resentment. We have actually used the word “insecure” to describe his attitude and behavior. He now uses any way he can to “neutralize” H. It has not been pretty. I have used the bully in the sandbox analogy (since the guy has friends he has now empowered also), but the marble game theory seems to fit just as well.</p>
<p>Interesting theory, but I’m not sure I’m sold. While dh and I will never write a manual on happily ever after, and we’ve had any number of conflicts over 30-plus years (usually unresolved ;)), it doesn’t feel right to define our marriage in terms of who’s got the most marbles. As someone above asked, what about when you define marbles differently? If he’s got most of the financial marbles, and I’ve got most of the emotional marbles, maybe we’re fighting more about the nature of what’s important than who’s got more of what. In other words, back to Mars and Venus again.</p>
<p>This theory also seems to favor the most-marbled partner. Not only do their superior skills net them the most marbles, but the weaker partner is always trying to take marbles away by manipulative or unpleasant means. I wonder how you get to conflict resolution when the opening line of reasoning is, “One of us is the superior partner.” It might explain long-standing marital conflicts, but as someone somewhere said, “If that’s love, I’ll take arsenic.” </p>
<p>Just another POV.</p>
<p>" I wonder how you get to conflict resolution when the opening line of reasoning is, “One of us is the superior partner.”</p>
<p>If you’re in a relationship like that, I think you remain the superior partner by not telling them that! I wouldn’t tell them about the marble game theory.</p>
<p>*if a person feels insecure deep down inside, they weill continue to emotionally beat down the other person in order to feel superior (to compensate of the insecurity) and to feel they have risen above the other person. Doesn’t matter how many marbles they have-- they well never feel they have enough, and feel they don’t have the power so will continue to put the other person down in order to grab the power they dont feel they have.
*</p>
<p>this is very true…someone who has serious self-esteem issues needs other help…the attempt to give him/her more marbles isn’t going to work.</p>
<p>*“Love keeps no record of wrongs.” Cures alot of marble problems. *</p>
<p>When love is perfect, that is true. When dealing with (flawed) humans, those with feelings of inadequacies (whether real or not real), are sometimes not going to respond in a rational manner. And, remember, it’s not the person who is more often “right” who is keeping score…it’s the person who finds him/herself “wrong” more often.</p>
<p>In the example I gave regarding a parent/child issue, the problem isn’t a lack of love at all.</p>
<p>*Hasn’t each of us been frustrated when we tell a parent to do something and they dismiss it, yet when someone ELSE tells them to do the SAME thing, the parent acts like that the smartest idea they’ve ever heard!!!??? That’s the marble game theory going on. The parent doesn’t have that “marble-conflict” going on with that “other person.” So, the parents feels that he/she isn’t giving up any marbles (showing weakness) by following that "other person’s advice. *</p>
<p>*I wonder how you get to conflict resolution when the opening line of reasoning is, “One of us is the superior partner.” It might explain long-standing marital conflicts, but as someone somewhere said, “If that’s love, I’ll take arsenic.” *</p>
<p>Frazzled…LOL…no one is suggesting that scenario for conflict resolution. That would be awful. I think you may have misunderstood. :)</p>
<p>Thats the point. People who struggle with power issues in a relationship are most likely struggling with self esteem issues. If they were comfprtable intheir own shin and in the relationship, the power/marble thing wouldn’t really matter. So yes, if a person overreacts to som perceived shift in the “balance of power”, they need to look further as to waht is fueling that perceived threat. This reminds me of the thread several months back (IIRC) about the poster whose husband wanted to be paid from an inheritance for doing some remodeling at the house that was to be sold and was irate that the poster might hire someone independent to do the work (there was more to the story-- can anyone help?)</p>
<p>Here ya go-- it was this thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/993594-opinions-marital-money-conflict.html?highlight=inheritance[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/993594-opinions-marital-money-conflict.html?highlight=inheritance</a></p>
<p>** and apologies for typo above-- meant to say comfortable in their own SKIN</p>
<p>I do not think the OP is talking about an occasional event in a marriage. If the disagreements are only occasional, then I don’t think the game of marbles is really going on. She is talking about when the dumbest things routinely get blown up into big arguments, and one party is mystified over what triggers it. It is the other party feeling like they lost another marble.</p>
<p>Exactly. The marble theory allows the “mystified” person to understand something that truly isn’t understandable on its face. It’s making sense out of nonsense.</p>
<p>m2ck – You may be a ‘hunter’ in a family of ‘gatherers’.</p>
<p>true…but one child is also a “hunter.” LOL</p>
<p>People who struggle with power issues in a relationship are most likely struggling with self esteem issues. If they were comfortable in their own skin and in the relationship, the power/marble thing wouldn’t really matter. So yes, if a person overreacts to some perceived shift in the “balance of power”, they need to look further as to what is fueling that perceived threat.</p>
<p>Jym nails it.</p>
<p>I am out of the ring, jym626. The ex just remarried, and is now sparring with a new partner. His 3rd marriage, will probably end up going the same way his first two did, as his marble collecting behavior does not seem to have changed.</p>
<p>I would imagine that someone like him will have history repeating itself unless he happens to marry someone who he perceives to be so weak/dumb that he’s not threatened. How long did each of his previous marriages last?</p>
<p>Not sure I buy the marble game theory … but I think it might be a real good start. With Mom3ToGo I think it’s more like this … we have a series of Marble Games and in total the marbles come out pretty even. Financial planning = 3ToGo more marbles, College Hunt = 3ToGo more marbles, Medical Issues = Mom3ToGo more marbels, Common Sense = Mom3ToGo more marbles, etc. Personally, I think a marriage with one partner with a lot more marbles than their spouse would create some challenges.</p>