<p>Maybe the key to a great marriage is to let them think they have most of the marbles…while knowing they’re mostly yours. </p>
<p>Not that I do that or anything. But as far as controlling certain situations (scheduling, schools, day to day activities)—he thinks of me as the secretary, but I think of myself as the boss. Win/win is my favorite scenario.</p>
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Maybe - I have no idea what happened to all the marbles I used to have, actually. They were here a few years ago, and then suddenly they weren’t.</p>
<p>I wasn’t proposing that anyone (in his/her right mind, anyway) would actually try to resolve a conflict by pointing out that he/she is the superior partner who has earned a whole lot more marbles over the course of a relationship. The theory itself just seems unnecessarily adversarial to me. Conflict can result from an imbalance of power, but it can also result from differing values and viewpoints.</p>
<p>I’m sure the theory fits many situations and relationships, but I don’t think I’d use it to explain any of the ones I know best.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, his first one lasted 7 years. His second one (to me) lasted 23 years. The third one has made it 2 weeks so far 
My kids actually do say the new wife is a lot like him… so maybe they can tussle over the marbles together and be happy, who knows. Or maybe it will be shorter marriage because the marble war will escalate quickly.</p>
<p>*Maybe the key to a great marriage is to let them think they have most of the marbles…while knowing they’re mostly yours. *</p>
<p>LOL…if it were only that easy! </p>
<p>*mom2collegekids, his first one lasted 7 years. His second one (to me) lasted 23 years. The third one has made it 2 weeks so far My kids actually do say the new wife is a lot like him.… so maybe they can tussle over the marbles together and be happy, who knows. Or maybe it will be shorter marriage because the marble war will escalate quickly. *</p>
<p>Well, since 3rd marriages have a very high divorce rate, it may well end in divorce…or they’ll feel that they’re just too old to keep going thru more divorces. LOL (yes, I think that happens…look at Mickey Rooney…his last marriage has lasted longer than all of his previous marriages combined.)</p>
<p>That said, I don’t know if marrying someone who is “a lot like you” is a good idea unless you’re just one of the nicest, patient, hard-working, loving, and generous person on earth.</p>
<p>frazzled quote: *I wasn’t proposing that anyone (in his/her right mind, anyway) would actually try to resolve a conflict by pointing out that he/she is the superior partner who has earned a whole lot more marbles over the course of a relationship. The theory itself just seems unnecessarily adversarial to me. Conflict can result from an imbalance of power, but it can also result from differing values and viewpoints.</p>
<p>I’m sure the theory fits many situations and relationships, but I don’t think I’d use it to explain any of the ones I know best. *</p>
<p>I’m still not sure that you’re understanding the theory. It’s not really used to resolve relationships. It’s used to understand why certain people will interact with you in a way that just doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Now, if you’re a rather quiet/passive person, then you may not have such experiences - because you’re not seen as threatening. However, if your personality/talents/wisdom “threatens” some people, then you likely have had these experiences. </p>
<p>In my family, I have a SIL who is just a super nice gal. She doesn’t say anything “controversial”…she doesn’t get into any kind of debates/confrontations…she’s kind of quiet. I doubt she’s encountered any/many of these situations.</p>
<p>Well, I was just musing on the practical applications of this theory, as is my way. It’s helpful to understand why conflicts occur, of course, but then what? Maybe I was a bit turned off by the initial explanation, which still seems to paint an unnecessarily negative (and simplistic) picture of human relationships, especially marriage:
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<p>I realize that theories often don’t have practical applications, and since I like practical applications, this is where I’ll bow out. But surely someone can disagree with a theory and understand it well enough? Or at least catch a glimmer, anyway.</p>
<p>*Maybe I was a bit turned off by the initial explanation, which still seems to paint an unnecessarily negative (and simplistic) picture of human relationships, especially marriage: *</p>
<p>It wasn’t a picture of all human relationships or marriages…certainly not. It was an explanation of the relationships that are rocky/tense/etc…certainly many/most marriages aren’t like that…neither would most other relationships be either. </p>
<p>*It’s helpful to understand why conflicts occur, of course, but then what? *</p>
<p>I’m not a therapist so I can’t offer what the treatment or remedy is for these situations. Certainly, there wouldn’t be a “one size fits all” remedy either. And, some people/relationships certainly could be helped with therapy, some may not. </p>
<p>I think that when this marble game is going on outside of the immediate family it’s easier to deal with. Obviously, a person doesn’t have much influence getting an outsider to counseling, BUT…once the theory is understood, dealing with that outsider can be managed to reduce this “who has the most marbles” tension that exists. </p>
<p>For instance, there is someone in my social circle that was very vocally critical of those of us who breast-fed our babies (obviously, she was a bottle feeder). Now, the nursing moms weren’t criticizing her at all, so we couldn’t understand why the constant drumbeat of negative comments. If I had known about the “marble theory,” we would have realized that in the “mom area” she felt that she didn’t have as many marbles (even tho she was a good mom). If we had known that, her constant negative remarks would have been more tolerable. Once you realize that when someone is feeling that her (bottle-feeding) choice wasn’t being copied (and therefore validated) by her peers, you can better understand/tolerate the silliness that comes out of their mouths.</p>
<p>The reason that the first post mostly involved a situation between a married couple was because it was concerning another thread which involved a H&W involved in this kind of conflict where the one who is being criticized can’t make sense out of the criticism.</p>
<p>^^I encountered a similar situation to the breast-feeding issue when my D was young. After she was born, I stayed home rather than going back to work, which was very much against the grain of the people I knew. I was struck by the fact that most of the feedback I got was from other mothers of young children; no one else really much cared, or at least, didn’t feel moved to give me their opinions. But from the moms, I was second-guessed, patronized, and subtly insulted.</p>
<p>I wondered about this at first. It seemed to me that of all people, other mothers would be the most supportive. But then I figured it out: they saw my decision as an implicit criticism of theirs, and that’s what they were reacting to. </p>
<p>Do we need marble theory to explain this? Isn’t it just obvious?</p>
<p>I will admit I kind of read this the same way Frazzled did.<br>
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<p>I think I don’t like the idea that “in my head, now, I know what is going on with you, but of course I won’t say it–even though I realize I have the marbles and you feel bad.”
I mean, does anyone read this and think, gee, I have no marbles cuz the other guy is so much more together than me? Or is it more likely that any reader of it would see themselves as the one with the marbles, and then “kindly” understand the other guy better.</p>
<p>Again, perhaps it is just my misunderstanding. But I don’t think I would want to base my new view of an important relationship in terms of “now I get why you’re disfunctional.”</p>
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<p>Not in my H’s workplace issue. His problem colleague is not “so much more together”, but is now in a position of power and authority above H. That’s why H has lost his marbles!</p>
<p>I can see that this might be helpful in dispassionate, contingent relationships, like at work, but it seems antithetical to a relationship valued for itself, like a marriage.</p>
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<p>Thank you! I’ve had a hard time putting my finger on what bothers me about this theory, and this is exactly it.</p>
<p>Marble Theory a zero-sum game, and that’s a really bad way to think about important relationships.</p>
<p>I think you guys are missing the point. It isn’t a theory that you decide you should or shouldn’t apply. It IS the way some people look at it (eg, my ex-H). It isn’t meant to be a GOOD way to think about a relationship, but some people do it anyway. Although I am not sure “thinking” really applies, in my ex-H’s case it is much more his natural/instinctive reaction. Of course it is a zero sum game and counter productive. Doesn’t stop some people from insisting on playing it anyway.</p>
<p>I think that’s a semantic objection. How can it be what “they” are doing, if it’s a theory? As presented in the first pages of this thread, it’s a description of how to interpret someone else, and definitely as “a theory that you decide you should or shouldn’t apply.” I’m still not sure how “ah, now I see what you’re up to” is conducive to improved relationships.</p>
<p>I agree with Frazzled and Garland. Some of the posts make it seem like some people play a game of one-upmanship with each other. “I’m smarter, better at planning, more educated, therefore, it is understandable why you would feel like I have more marbles.” And, yes, people often do develop an air of superiority and lord it over their spouses and children, often in non-verbal ways. Let’s face it, in a marriage and in a family, you get to see the good, the bad and the ugly about the other person. You have to be humble enough to acknowledge that we all have our fair share of ugly.</p>
<p>I think what the marble game theory does explain is the fact that when people start to feel ‘less than’ their spouse either because of self-esteem issues or, as is often the case, their spouse has made it perfectly clear they believe that they are the ones with the most marbles, they start to become defensive and sensitive to any little criticism.</p>
<p>I’m positive that mom2collegekids therapist sister would say that a marriage is an symbiotic ecosystem with both spouses contributing to the tone of the relationship. It’s never one-sided. There’s almost never only one spouse who is completely at fault for martial issues. Each partner tends to play their part in the deterioration. </p>
<p>Even in the workplace, if someone feels they don’t have an equal share of marbles, it could be the fault of the other person who is stingy with giving positive feedback, comes across as arrogant or very controlling or simply lacks good communication skills. And though, there are some people who are simply hard to deal with, before saying ‘I’m the innocent victim here’ one needs to do a lot of honest soul-seeking to make sure he or she isn’t contributing to the problem. </p>
<p>And as for the breast-feeding and stay-at-home mom scenarios (I did both). These are debates that rage on in all circles and is really a societal debate. Women who choose to breast-feed and stay home (if they’re lucky enough to be able to do so) are often smug about their decisions. And women who can’t or choose not to do those things are often left with the distinct impression that they are being looked down by those other mothers. I’m not saying that is true on an individual basis but the prevailing attitude is there. I admit when I hear a woman say she’s not going to breast-feed, my first thought (though I don’t say it to her) is 'but it’s so good for your baby, why would you not?"</p>
<p>Like many things, this may be a question of degree. People who navigate the world as a victim, always feeling one down and persecuted, will count their marbles differently than a person who sees life as interplay between ups and downs and their loved ones (and themselves) as whole, complex people. In fact, they may be more prone to counting marbles, period… It is not easy when you view every exchange as having a winner and a loser. I like learning from people in my life, even when it means hearing the “hard” stuff. I do know people for whom the marble theory would explain their primary approach to the world. Not pretty…</p>
<p>^Totally agree with you though I would add you are as likely to see people who feel superior to others because they believe they are ‘one up’ as you are to see people who play the victim card. Some people work non-stop to make sure they are in an one-up position. They’re not that hard to spot either. Rather than getting defensive, their modus operandi is arrogance.</p>
<p>The thoughts and sharing above is all amazing! Very insightful.</p>
<p>My sense is that the relationship with a varying but not too imbalanced set of marbles can roll along pretty well as long as the partners are secure enough to feel the TEAM approach as more important:
“A ‘hunter-gatherer’ relationship can work if everyone is patient and understands the different benefits each style can bring.”
The “portfolio approach” is: I am good at/enjoy this & you are good at/enjoy that. We are happy to complement, all stand to benefit by a varied approach, as long as it is seen as additive, not conflicting. </p>
<p>BUT if something BAD happens to the FAMILY- kid in trouble, does not get into college, etc.- OR if ONE of the partners has a BIG setback (job, money, life-style, often affects the Family), the blame game begins, and the marbles become a too important factor.</p>
<p>In our house, H is not really happy to follow someone else’s (esp W’s LOL) ideas and advice- he needs to hear it from other sources, or, OUCH, wait to respond at the last minute. Planner vs Experiencer. P.S. Planners (my bad) are not very good at not keeping score! Probably also a marble thing, too- he does not like being dragged in and letting me take the lead. But for me it is not about power, it is about timing-I would be happy if he came to me with more forward-thinking ideas!</p>
<p>BUT
If the FAMILY has a set-back, the blame game starts. Stylistic and perceived power differences will cause problems in Mon AM quarterbacking, and also in how to proceed both in solving the problem and preventing another one. And one who did Most will be on one side; one who did Less will be on the other. Both sides do this: power imbalance 101.
Also, the definition of how marbles are valued seems to become very limited all of a sudden. For example, before, common sense was valued just as much as money, but suddenly one is valued more than the other.</p>
<p>But hearing all this now seems to me to be about: WOW- why is X acting so differently, so irrationally? Bingo- something BAD has happened in X’s life. The marbles suddenly matter. Or there is a lot of STRESS and worry about something BAD maybe happening.</p>
<p>Thanks all! Learning muchissimo as always!!!</p>
<p>P.S. I think there should be a thread on how to handle the differences in spouses’ PARENTING STYLE: Type A (authoritarian Tiger) vs Type B (let it all flow, everybody’s great) and all the types in between!</p>
<p>Mom live- I agree. Opposite sides of the same coin. Both short circuit the deeper stuff.</p>
<p>Interesting thread- even told my H about it as he happened to be nearby. Key is not just to counting marbles, but awareness of them. When all is well both parties may just as well have lost all their marbles (needed an excuse to use this phrase) and issues don’t arise. I like emerald… literal use of the marbles…</p>
<p>Parenting style issues- that’s a big one. Remember decades ago when you were newly in love and promised each other you would do things differently than either of your parents, that you would both be on the same page…? Guess our kids will be able to make the same promises to their spouses.</p>