<p>Do 18 year olds get to “control their own environment”? Or 22 year olds? At what point do young people get to make their own decisions, or are they going to live home with Mom and Dad until age 35, needing permission to go to the grocery store?</p>
<p>
So it’s okay for MoWC to absolutely believe that her child is moral and truthful but not for me?</p>
<p>
I believe I stated that I was as sure as I could be but can’t guarantee it. </p>
<p>I believe that if we send a message that “everybody is doing it” and “of course they’re going to cheat” then that’s what we get.</p>
<p>Purpleflurp: You said it better than I could.</p>
<p>^^I think there is a difference between control and approval. Approval for cheating - never. Control - always doubtful. </p>
<p>This must be an emotional topic and our views depend so much on our own experiences.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My rule is that when children are financially self-sufficient, they are entirely free. If they are dependent, then you have rights to impose standards.</p>
<p>I think some are insinuating that other parents condone cheating on BFs and GFs. I just don’t view people on this thread condoning it. I see some seeing this as part of the growing up and learning how to appropriately handle relationships and learning through experience. Parents guide their children as to what is morally appropriate behavior and instill values. Kids are still developing and learning. They make mistakes. They learn. As young adults, they must take over personal responsibility and decision making when it comes to dating and sex. I just can’t see getting angry with my kids in those areas but just trying to be open and to guide them. They are moving onto independence and I am not involved in the nitty gritty of their sex lives. They share a lot and I share my guidance. I don’t pry into it and I don’t give rules about what they can do as adults. I did in high school, believe me. I advise them now but I don’t control them like when they lived at home and were under 18.</p>
<p>munchkin, you said it better…there is a difference between control and approval. I controlled my kids’ moves prior to college. As young adults in college and beyond, I can express disapproval but can’t control them as they are on their own. I can impose standards for things that relate to expecations that involve us in some way or their schooling, etc. but I don’t control their relationships and sex lives.</p>
<p>[Do 18 year olds get to “control their own environment”? Or 22 year
olds? At what point do young people get to make their own decisions,
or are they going to live home with Mom and Dad until age 35, needing
permission to go to the grocery store?]</p>
<p>I lived in my mother’s house on and off until about 27. My wife had
lived in a few other countries but lived with her mother and sister
on and off until we got married.</p>
<p>The kids can stay with us for as long as they want to.</p>
<p>I work with a lot of indians. After they work here for a while, they
go back for a long period of time. Sometimes they come back with a
wife (or have to make arrangements for the wife to come here after
getting through INS stuff). I think that the parents arrange a meeting
for a prospective wife and the son goes back to meet, date and
indicate yes or no. I don’t recall any incidences of divorce or
cheating in the marriages that I’ve seen formed in this way.</p>
<p>If you are for arranged marriages, good for you. I am not into that. I’d rather be able to pick my partner. Dating involves a level of experimentation and trying out relationships. Hopefully, when one lands on the appropriate partner, they are done with “trying out relationships” and are in it for life. </p>
<p>In my case, I married someone I met at age 18 and did not have many relationships at all. I am still with that person after 31 years of marriage. But ideally, I hope my kids can have several relationships before they land on the one for life. The early relationships are learning opportunities about what they want in a relationship. Even my 20 year old who has had four year-long relationships, has learned from each one and discusses with me what she thinks makes a good BF, having experienced different boys and how they handle relationships.</p>
<p>I’d like my children to grow up and become responsible adults, and that means selecting their own marital partner, making their own decisions about relationships and choices about jobs, where to live, etc. If they want to live with us for a little while after college, that is fine, but I really wouldn’t want my late 20’s or 30’s age children still living at home. My husband has a relative who was still at home at 30, and in fact is still now living with her widowed mother at 50. I think it’s a shame, since she never has really had her own life (no issue with all those STDs, but no real relationships with men either—she has missed out on a lot of life!). </p>
<p>And I wouldn’t fool yourself about the all out success of arranged marriages; girls have run away or killed themselves to avoid their parents’ “choice”.</p>
<p>Thanks, aibarr. My daughter is a fine young woman. She isn’t perfect and I never claimed she was. She does view many things differently than her brother does. I guess I parented one pretty well and one poorly. </p>
<p>I get frustrated on some of these threads by the lack of reality. I hear “I don’t pry or snoop or get on facebook or read magazines or watch TV” and “I know exactly what most young adults are like based on what MY kid is like”. Go figure.</p>
<p>Also, what a narrow-minded view of boarding school. The most inspiring mentors my kids had were faculty and staff at their boarding schools. Again- try knowing what you are talking about before you hit the keyboard. Fools…</p>
<p>There’s an important difference between talking to your children about sex, sexual morality, and relationships – three different things – and taking them to task for how they handle a specific situation with a specific person. I do lots of the former, and almost none of the latter – certainly none in real time unless the child brings it up first (which has happened maybe once, years ago).</p>
<p>Absent some kind of public scandal, I think parents should stay out of their children’s relationships. Will a kid make mistakes? Of course. (And if it’s not infidelity, it will likely be something else. If it is infidelity, it will likely be a bunch of other things, too.) All of that is too threatening to have to deal with the fear of losing one’s parents’ love and respect over it, too. So I don’t condone my children’s mistakes – they certainly know where I stand on all these issues, and why – but I try hard NOT to obtain specific information about their mistakes, and NOT to judge them for those mistakes. Maybe some months later, after the dust has cleared, I’ll touch base from a theoretical perspective, without specifics, to gauge what lessons they’ve learned from their past behavior.</p>
<p>In my experience, both as a teenager and as a parent, this is an area where people really value their privacy and the absence of parental supervision. To say the least. To inquire too much is to set a perjury trap. I’m sorry the OP’s son lied to him, but if I asked my kids similar questions about a current unstable relationship (and any relationship between a college student and a high school student is unstable), I would expect not to get the whole truth all of the time.</p>
<p>So put me down as one who disagrees with the notion that the OP has to talk with his son about this, now or at Christmas. The OP doesn’t have to do that, and I doubt it will be productive if he does.</p>
<p>I’d contend that most people who “think” they know everything going on with their children, that their children would NEVER <insert one=“”>* lie, have sex, cheat, *etc, are just plain wrong. Let’s just say that in my line of work I hear what parents don’t, and I think a lot of the moral majority would be very, very surprised. I also concur 110% with JHS, a wise man on these boards, that privacy for teenagers, particularly those of college age, is extremely, extremely important. It gets really easy to lie, to tell parents what they want to hear, and kids are good at it, even to unsuspecting parents.</insert></p>
<p>Now granted, if kids live at home under lock and key, I imagine that lying is a bit harder to get away with. But kids are creative, and I have never, ever seen a kid who WANTED to have sex, deterred by either parental rules or morals, or whatever. Where there is a will, there is a way…for everything.</p>
<p>learning opportunities about what they want in a relationship. Even my
20 year old who has had four year-long relationships, has learned from
each one and discusses with me what she thinks makes a good BF, having
experienced different boys and how they handle relationships."</p>
<p>It’s interesting that although you’ve had a successful experience with
an approach, that you’d prefer something different for your kids.</p>
<p>This reminds me of trading stocks.</p>
<p>“I’d like my children to grow up and become responsible adults, and
that means selecting their own marital partner, making their own
decisions about relationships and choices about jobs, where to live,
etc. If they want to live with us for a little while after college,
that is fine, but I really wouldn’t want my late 20’s or 30’s age
children still living at home. My husband has a relative who was still
at home at 30, and in fact is still now living with her widowed mother
at 50. I think it’s a shame, since she never has really had her own
life (no issue with all those STDs, but no real relationships with men
either—she has missed out on a lot of life!).”</p>
<p>We’ve raised our kids to become responsible adults too and they do
make their own decisions in many areas but our son does defer to my
judgement on a lot of matters and asks my opinion on a lot of matters.</p>
<p>Our moderns society is not without problems and alternative and
traditional living patterns can work out quite well. I run into
couples having kids with no support systems because their parents
and siblings live in other parts of the country or other parts of
the world and I do think that having support when raising kids,
particularly after birth, is quite helpful.</p>
<p>“I get frustrated on some of these threads by the lack of reality. I
hear “I don’t pry or snoop or get on facebook or read magazines or
watch TV” and “I know exactly what most young adults are like based on
what MY kid is like”. Go figure.”</p>
<p>Sounds like what you are doing. When you claim others are “unreal”,
you state that you know what most young adults are like based on what
your kids are like.</p>
<p>“Also, what a narrow-minded view of boarding school. The most inspiring
mentors my kids had were faculty and staff at their boarding
schools. Again- try knowing what you are talking about before you hit
the keyboard. Fools…”</p>
<p>My views come in discussions with other parents. But you are just
making a strawman argument. And an ad hominem argument. Both fallacies
of course.</p>
<p>“I’d contend that most people who “think” they know everything going on
with their children, that their children would NEVER <insert one=”“> lie,
have sex, cheat, etc, are just plain wrong.”</insert></p>
<p>I’d say that you constructed a very nice strawman argument.</p>
<p>“Let’s just say that in my line of work I hear what parents don’t, and
I think a lot of the moral majority would be very, very surprised. I
also concur 110% with JHS, a wise man on these boards, that privacy
for teenagers, particularly those of college age, is extremely,
extremely important. It gets really easy to lie, to tell parents what
they want to hear, and kids are good at it, even to unsuspecting
parents.”</p>
<p>Why would a child want to lie?</p>
<p>“Now granted, if kids live at home under lock and key, I imagine that
lying is a bit harder to get away with. But kids are creative, and I
have never, ever seen a kid who WANTED to have sex, deterred by either
parental rules or morals, or whatever. Where there is a will, there is
a way…for everything.”</p>
<p>What about the kid that has no interest in sex?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Have you raised a capon?</p>
<p>BCEagle: Count yourself extremely lucky if discussing your kids’ relationships and providing support after birth has worked out well for you.</p>
<p>This was my experience: (1) When I was 21, I decided that I should share more current information about my life with my parents. I knew they wished I would, and I felt mature enough to expose myself that way. Result: My parents got (and misinterpreted) too much information about the woman I eventually married. Their relationship (when they had one, which was not for a couple more years) got off on the wrong foot and never completely righted itself. I made far worse mistakes in my youth from the standpoint of objective morality, but none of them had such long-lasting negative consequences for so many people I care about, including myself. (2) After our first child was born, my mother offered a great deal of support, in pretty much the way the Bush Administration offered support to the Iraqi people, and with pretty similar consequences. Negotiating (with my father) the treaty that ended the incursion of foreign troops and disarmed the insurgency was a very difficult period in my life.</p>
<p>“Have you raised a capon?”</p>
<p>Not to my knowledge. But I do run into parents of boys that indicate that they have no interest in girls. These kids are typically quite nerdish. I read a bio of KC Johnson, historian, blogger, ABC News consultant, author and professor and the principal blogger on the Duke Lacrosse case. He sounds like a monk in how he lives but he is an extremely productive person.</p>
<p>Again BCEagle, children lie because they don’t want to disappoint their parents—it’s the main reason. So, parents “think” their children aren’t interested in sex, because their kid is a good liar, or if not a good liar, a good diplomat in the family. Why create family strife? Stroke Dad’s ego and make him think he has done an excellent job in raising Mr. Morality. Maybe you did, and maybe you didn’t. Maybe he isn’t a capon at all, but a boy who doesn’t really tell you the whole truth. This is very, very common, because kids want and need parental approval, but want independence of thought and action. It is a huge push/pull of growing up.</p>
<p>“BCEagle: Count yourself extremely lucky if discussing your kids’
relationships and providing support after birth has worked out well
for you.”</p>
<p>It has worked for us but in the other direction. My MIL stayed with
us for six months after the births of our kids.</p>
<p>“This was my experience: (1) When I was 21, I decided that I should
share more current information about my life with my parents. I knew
they wished I would, and I felt mature enough to expose myself that
way. Result: My parents got (and misinterpreted) too much information
about the woman I eventually married. Their relationship (when they
had one, which was not for a couple more years) got off on the wrong
foot and never completely righted itself. I made far worse mistakes in
my youth from the standpoint of objective morality, but none of them
had such long-lasting negative consequences for so many people I care
about, including myself. (2) After our first child was born, my mother
offered a great deal of support, in pretty much the way the Bush
Administration offered support to the Iraqi people, and with pretty
similar consequences. Negotiating (with my father) the treaty that
ended the incursion of foreign troops and disarmed the insurgency was
a very difficult period in my life.”</p>
<p>Things usually work out better when the parents of the mother provides
the support. There’s quite a genre of literature on MILs in American
culture.</p>
<p>“Again BCEagle, children lie because they don’t want to disappoint
their parents—it’s the main reason. So, parents “think” their
children aren’t interested in sex, because their kid is a good liar,
or if not a good liar, a good diplomat in the family. Why create
family strife? Stroke Dad’s ego and make him think he has done an
excellent job in raising Mr. Morality. Maybe you did, and maybe you
didn’t. Maybe he isn’t a capon at all, but a boy who doesn’t really
tell you the whole truth. This is very, very common, because kids want
and need parental approval, but want independence of thought and
action. It is a huge push/pull of growing up.”</p>
<p>Let me be the judge of my household situation given that I do know
a lot more about it than you do. We didn’t know if he would survive
his teenage years and I basically bent over backwards for 18 months
to get him back to the world of the living. And he saw that and is
highly appreciative of it.</p>
<p>I don’t appreciate you calling my kid a liar. But perhaps that’s just
your emotional response speaking.</p>
<p>I’d suggest that you acquaint yourself with the dangers of universal
quantifiers.</p>