<p>I’m still going to disagree. My son is as popular and social as they come. President of his class. Homecoming court. Member of a fraternity. Dated the same girl for 6 years including the four while he was in college. Married her this summer. Never cheated. You’ll probably call me a liar because it doesn’t fit into what you want to believe, but it’s the truth. People CAN be moral and loyal if that’s what they believe in. By the way, he’s not strongly religious either.</p>
<p>OP, I feel for you - I’d be disappointed too.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Would you condone meddling with their financial activities if those included illegal drug distribution? Is that OK as long as it’s off your property - after all, the police can impose consequences?</p>
<p>It’s easy to say stay out of their sexual relations, but in fact we’re talking about potential grandchildren and severe constraints on these kid’s futures. Sometimes I think we keep our voices too silent.</p>
<p>When do you get serious about imparting your relationship values? Do you give the kid a lecture before he ever goes out with others in anticipation of the ‘friends with benefits’ culture? Do you give the kid a lecture once he’s gone out with a girl a few times, saying 'if you get serious, then lose interest or find someone else you’ll have to break up before getting serious with another (otherwise you’re a cheater) - and here’s the way to do so? Do you mention the responsibilities associated with sexual relations to a kid who has just begun to get serious about someone? Once it’s begun, this talk is moot.</p>
<p>“but if you watch any kind of TV or read magazines”</p>
<p>Don’t watch television then. Or read certain kinds of magazines.</p>
<p>“popular, social young people, you are going to see a lot of casual sex, infidelity and what I view as not enough regard for the feelings of others.”</p>
<p>I didn’t see “a lot” of this when I was growing up. There was some of it and I worked in the local hospital and had to routinely look at the OR schedule so I could see if someone was having a procedure.</p>
<p>I’m with historymom and Giggles and had expressed this earlier in the thread but I also don’t think the son was entirely morally bereft given his age and circumstances. I think he was indeed grappling with what to do (and is not all that experienced yet…thus a teachable moment!). He did not immaturely break up with her in an IM or text message. He was away at school and started experiencing a new social life and thought he’d maintain this past relationship until he realized he did not want to any longer. Then, he grappled with what to do considering his GF had bad news in her family at the time and he was sensitive to that. He came home at Thanksgiving and was trying to figure out a way out and to do it in person. And he did. His mistake was not to do it sooner and before he dated anyone else. Hopefully he learned something from it and will act differently next time. He is 18 and that behavior is not unsusual but it doesn’t indicate being entirely morally out of whack. It means he grappled with what to do and didn’t make the best choices but on the other hand, didn’t want to break up over the phone or at a time when the girl was struggling with things in her family. He should not have moved onto other girls yet but he did. Hopefully, this is an opportunity to talk about other ways he could have handled his confusion. But my guess is that it was the social scene at college and meeting new girls that pushed him into deciding to no longer maintain his relationship back home with his HS GF whereas he may have kept that relationship had he not been meeting girls in college. This led him to realize he didn’t want to go out with the girl back home any longer and thus when he came home, he broke up with her.</p>
<p>3bm103, sounds like you did a great job.</p>
<p>Thanks. But I don’t think I can, or should take all the credit. His father sets a wonderful example and also talks to his children about it. His older brother has set a good example, as have other members of the extended family. As much as I don’t agree with Hillary Clinton on much, there is one thing I do agree with: It takes a village to raise a child. At least the right village.</p>
<p>Treetopleaf, only one of my kids has had a boyfriend (has had a few by now, each for a year or so). We certainly discuss relationships. I don’t really pry. I don’t have private conversations with their BFs about who is having sex with whom, etc. as happened with the OP. I am aware that my D is in a sexual relationship with her steady BF. I am aware of obtaining and paying for the birth control. We discuss things openly but she chooses to and it is not like I try to find out all the nitty gritty details. The decisions are hers to make and if she comes to me about any of it, I guide her. I don’t think that is the same as interfering in her relationships. She is an adult now and makes her own decisions. I can guide and teach her but not control her. I certainly do not get angry with her about her relationships or sex life.</p>
<p>“but if you watch any kind of tv or read magazines”</p>
<p>Wow-I must be behind the times. I don’t set my standards by the folks in Hollywood. This country is in a heap of trouble if we are modeling them as ideal.</p>
<p>Before I get nasty posts–I’m not saying anyone said they were ideal, but my inference from some of the first posts was that “well, everyone’s doing it, so it’s ok…” That’s the attitude with which I disagree. I’m not talking about sex here–I’m talking about the cheating as a way out.</p>
<p>I am not a parent (I just recently graduated college), but I wanted to offer my perspective, as some of the posts really stunned me. I was very surprised how many parents said they would just stay out of it. I completely agree with the posters who pointed out that in matters of academic cheating, the parents would interfere. I don’t understand why it seems that some parents feel that how their son or daughter is doing academically is more important than their character and how they treat their fellow human beings.</p>
<p>A lot of people pointed out that relationships this early on aren’t serious. Someone even mentioned that the OP’s son was not engaged, but I feel that it’s exactly this attitude that is the problem. I feel that if kids learned from early age that relationships need to be taken seriously (at least seriously enough that you remain monogamous if you say you will), they would act differently. Of course, if they hear from their parents and everyone else that it’s not a big deal, they won’t take it seriously even if they are sexually involved, and I think that’s a pretty horrible attitude to take. I have seen a number of girls (and guys to some extent) destroyed by cheating in a sense of how they view relationships after that, and the people that I am talking about weren’t even sexually active (as far as they say), but, in some cases, it took years for them to fully get over it. This is especially true if it was your first relationship.</p>
<p>I also fully believe that once people start getting away with cheating, they will cheat later as well as in their marriage. If you can say you care for someone and then cheat, what stops you from doing it later on in life? Especially since even your parents say its your business.</p>
<p>I just cannot believe that the parents who use their leverage (and you do have leverage) to prevent your kids from cheating or drinking in your house would not do anything about cheating. I really think that as long as society does not condemn it, cheating will be a growing problem (as it is now, according to the recent statistics by the New York Times). The only real way to influence the cheater is to get the cheating out in the open. Turning a blind eye to it is not a solution. And believe me, his high school friends will not send him disapproving emails. Its really up to the parents. Again, I dont have kids, but I have made it clear to my friends when the topic came up, if they ever cheat on their significant other, I will tell them, even if they are not a friend or someone I know. I would want them to do the same if I were cheating.</p>
<p>I just wish people would not take it so lightly.</p>
<p>“I don’t set my standards by the folks in Hollywood. This country is in a heap of trouble if we are modeling them as ideal.”</p>
<p>There are some that allow in a lot of popular culture and some that block it from their front door. I think that these two groups generally don’t meet.</p>
<p>Schools are a tough one. Many can’t afford private schools or homeschooling so your kid is in an environment where Hollywood prevails. You just have to do the best that you can.</p>
<p>BCEagle- you are missing the point. I’m happy for those of you who have raised such wonderful, moral young adults. That’s wonderful. I have one of my own who is actually a Postulant for the priesthood. This is a topic that is discussed in her pastoral care class. She will confirm what I am saying. I am talking about movies, TV, magazines as indicative of the culture and the casual “hook-ups” that are prevalent today.<br>
I have a close friend who is an administrator at a top private school in the northeast. The stories he tells would shock those of you who think it is all about the upbringing in the home. It isn’t. Peer influences are huge, and kids with parents who have done everything possible to teach proper values are engaging in some pretty frightening behaviors.
I’m just trying to say that BCEagle and the other perfect parents on here with the model young adults are not representative of what is really going on out there, and it is naive to suggest otherwise.</p>
<p>Don’t fool yourself BCEagle, into thinking your kids (or anyone’s kids) will be safe from all kinds of “popular culture”, including loads of hooking up and sex, in private school. Some of the hotbeds of sexual activity are at private boarding schools, including gay sex in the dorms (a friend of mine was horrified—she sent her 9th grader to boarding school to get away from all that (perceived) public high school sex, only to find that while gender segregated in the dorms, there was still a whole lot of sex going on…). In fact, since you are in New Hampshire, you may remember a case at Milton Academy a few years back…oh, and this was with day students too.</p>
<p>“BCEagle- you are missing the point. I’m happy for those of you who
have raised such wonderful, moral young adults. That’s wonderful. I
have one of my own who is actually a Postulant for the
priesthood. This is a topic that is discussed in her pastoral care
class. She will confirm what I am saying. I am talking about movies,
TV, magazines as indicative of the culture and the casual “hook-ups”
that are prevalent today.”</p>
<p>1) As one from the Boston area, I’d say that being in the priesthood
does not ensure a moral adult. My reference is to the Catholic
Church under the reign of Cardinal Law.</p>
<p>2) Do movies, TV and magazines reflect culture or drive it? Advertisers
certainly think that these are drivers as they spend huge amounts
of money to drive consumerist culture. They are completely wasting
their money if these are only reflectors.</p>
<p>“I have a close friend who is an administrator at a top private school
in the northeast. The stories he tells would shock those of you who
think it is all about the upbringing in the home. It isn’t. Peer
influences are huge, and kids with parents who have done everything
possible to teach proper values are engaging in some pretty
frightening behaviors.”</p>
<p>I have a friend with a child accepted at Exeter that decided to home
school rather than attend at Exeter. Does this top private school
focus on moral issues over academic matters? I am aware of all kinds
of scandals at elite private schools. But those aren’t the private
schools that I’m talking about.</p>
<p>“I’m just trying to say that BCEagle and the other perfect parents on
here with the model young adults are not representative of what is
really going on out there, and it is naive to suggest otherwise.”</p>
<p>I think that I’m pretty clear on the different aspects of culture.
What you think is really going on out there is not universal. There
are large numbers of families taking different approaches with
different results. You just don’t see them.</p>
<p>“Don’t fool yourself BCEagle, into thinking your kids (or anyone’s
kids) will be safe from all kinds of “popular culture”, including
loads of hooking up and sex in private school. Some of the hotbeds of
sexual activity are at private boarding schools, including gay sex in
the dorms (a friend of mine was horrified—she sent her 9th grader to
boarding school to get away from all that (perceived) public high
school sex, only to find that while gender segregated in the dorms,
there was still a whole lot of sex going on…). In fact, since you
are in New Hampshire, you may remember a case at Milton Academy a few
years back…oh, and this was with day students too.”</p>
<p>I know several parents with kids at Derryfield and they keep a pretty
close eye on their kids. One parent tells me the limits on popular
culture allowed into his home and what he and his wife due to limit
potential damaging influences from peers.</p>
<p>I think that boarding schools are an accident waiting to happen.</p>
<p>If you want to completely control the environment, then there is
homeschooling.</p>
<p>3bm103, The only person whose behavior you can really vouch for is your own. You know about your child what they want you to know. Really, all we know about anyone else is what they want us to know.</p>
<p>Perhaps your adult child’s behavior is exactly as you believe it to be, but perhps it is not. Starting with my years in a very good, very strict private high school I saw the pain and disconnect that children go through to not disappoint their parents.</p>
<p>I try to maintain a balance between keeping high standards with also letting my son know that whatever happens, I am here for him and that we’ll get through it as a family.</p>
<p>By the way, we homeschooled for several years. What some of the kids got away with without their parents knowing blew my mind. Unless you are with your kid 24/7, you do not know the whole story. I do not understand why that is so difficult to accept. Did you and every teenager you knew never get away with anything?</p>
<p>Good luck “completely controlling the environment”, that is, if you want well adjusted children.</p>
<p>BTW, I could tell you some hair raising tales from the Christian and Catholic schools too…lots and lots of lying, sex and rock 'n roll…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is true, but knowing and having gone to school with MoWC’s daughter, I can vouch that she’s an amazing young lady and that MoWC’s beliefs in her daughter’s virtues are entirely truthful, and I don’t think that arbitrarily casting shadows upon MoWC’s daughter’s character because of her calling does anything to further the discussion…</p>
<p>“3bm103, The only person whose behavior you can really vouch for is
your own. You know about your child what they want you to know.
Really, all we know about anyone else is what they want us to know.”</p>
<p>I work on open source projects and can often look at pieces of code
that I haven’t seen before and figure out what is going on based on
my experience with the source code base. Sometimes you can make a
pretty good guess at who wrote something just from the style.</p>
<p>Can we know more about anyone than they want us to know? Of course we
can. I’m sure that you can think of politicians that we’ve learned a
lot about on matters that they didn’t want anyone to know about.</p>
<p>The original poster provided a clear example where he found out
something that the child that they didn’t want the parent to know
about. If the cookie jar is half-empty, do you assume that gnomes
took the cookies?</p>
<p>“Perhaps your adult child’s behavior is exactly as you believe it to
be, but perhps it is not. Starting with my years in a very good, very
strict private high school I saw the pain and disconnect that children
go through to not disappoint their parents.”</p>
<p>Sounds like communications problems between the parents and children.</p>
<p>“By the way, we homeschooled for several years. What some of the kids
got away with without their parents knowing blew my mind. Unless you
are with your kid 24/7, you do not know the whole story. I do not
understand why that is so difficult to accept. Did you and every
teenager you knew never get away with anything?”</p>
<p>Why would they want to get away with something?</p>
<p>“I’m just trying to say that BCEagle and the other perfect parents on
here with the model young adults are not representative of what is
really going on out there, and it is naive to suggest otherwise.” </p>
<p>I think that I’m pretty clear on the different aspects of culture.
What you think is really going on out there is not universal. There
are large numbers of families taking different approaches with
different results. You just don’t see them. </p>
<p>BCEagle is exactly right. Parents who want you to believe that everyone’s kids are just like theirs do not want to face the reality that there are successful parents raising decent, ethical kids all around them. Those types of parents want to believe that the failing is never theirs and that there are no differences in parenting between those who manage to raise kids with consciences and those whose kids have none. While it is entirely possible for a great parent to raise kids who make mistakes (sometimes many of them and sometimes serious ones), some great parents have great success in raising kids according to their family standards. The first lesson is not to expect poor behavior from your kids and the second is not to be so willing to write off their bad behavior to societal influences. Kids who have been made to take responsibility for their own actions from an early age tend to internalize this lesson.</p>
<p>“Good luck “completely controlling the environment”, that is, if you
want well adjusted children.”</p>
<p>There’s quite a wide variation in what people consider as
well-adjusted children. Of course one could prefer well-adjusted
children without STDs and other baggage.</p>
<p>“BTW, I could tell you some hair raising tales from the Christian and
Catholic schools too…lots and lots of lying, sex and rock 'n roll…”</p>
<p>Perhaps you could also tell me about very fine graduates of religious
schools too.</p>
<p>[That is true, but knowing and having gone to school with MoWC’s
daughter, I can vouch that she’s an amazing young lady and that MoWC’s
beliefs in her daughter’s virtues are entirely truthful, and I don’t
think that arbitrarily casting shadows upon MoWC’s daughter’s
character because of her calling does anything to further the
discussion…]</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>cptofthehouse – I would not confuse the issue of “friends with benefits” or intimacy with an exclusive relationship. It seems as if the OP’s son was in the latter situation.</p>
<p>For all – I’m curious about how you learned to handle relationships – what did you and your friends do in these situations – have things really changed or are we just more aware of what’s going on? I know that I ask my kids questions that hit home partly because I remember my teenage years and partly because the gossip network is so good in my area. I’m also sure that in my case any of this would have definitely been tmi for my parents and as several posters have suggested it probably is as well for us regarding our kids.</p>