<p>NSM, I completely agree with what you wrote in #140~!</p>
<p>In looking back to my daughter’s hs school boyfriend, there were similar things going on in his life…parent’s splitting, a tragedy that claimed the life of his best friend the previous year.
It was an enormous amount of pressure for her to take on while beginning her college career. her first 6 months of her freshman year , she held back socially in a big way, so as not to upset her boyfriend. By the time she realized that this was a mistake, the resentment towards her boyfriend had built to a point of no return.
They leave, they should assimilate to their new surroundings…including social interactions with the opposite sex.
I personally don’t want my kids to be in such seriously comitted realationships at this time in their lives. That doesn’t mean I want them to be promiscuous.
Actually in the OP’s first post, there was no clear definition of cheating as he sees it…could it have been just a kiss or date ?</p>
<p>I only read the first page, but I’ll try and help by adding another freshman’s perspective. I have to say that you were def. not in the wrong by friending the ex-girlfriend. secondly, for people who are advising you to stay out of it…not a good idea, since obviously your son still needs some guidance! just because we are in college does not mean we have all the answers! he probably lied to you because he is afraid of how you will react. you need to establish some trust, so don’t be harsh or anything when/if he comes clean about anything. good luck!</p>
<p>WOW</p>
<p>I’m still curious - how much did all of YOU reveal to your parents – and how much of their advice did you take? And how many mistakes did you make? And…</p>
<p>I revealed some things to my parents but much I did not. There was a lot of drinking in high school (and we were the band nerds…) and my parents thought I had the flu if I was feeling under the weather… We also did some sneaking out of the house, dating older boys and skipping school. When I think of all the things we did it scares me to death and makes me thankful that my kids are past the teen years. We were good students with parents who didn’t supervise us very closely. The Jewish parents were more strict it seemed. My Jewish friends had to be more devious.</p>
<p>Sometimes a parent has to let their kid know that something isn’t “done”–after all, kids don’t have a frame of reference sometimes.</p>
<p>For example, my D broke up a boyfriend via an instant message. I told her that that sort of news should be broken in person. WHO KNEW?</p>
<p>“There’s an important difference between talking to your children about sex, sexual morality, and relationships – three different things – and taking them to task for how they handle a specific situation with a specific person. I do lots of the former, and almost none of the latter – certainly none in real time unless the child brings it up first (which has happened maybe once, years ago).”</p>
<p>Nicely put, JHS.</p>
<p>“Perhaps not , but it isn’ necessarily a recipe for wedded bliss
either…just recently in NJ , an Indian/ American killed his wife and
another member of the church he stormed, looking for his arranged
marriage spouse.”</p>
<p>Importance of Marital Characteristics and Marital Satisfaction: A
Comparison of Asian Indians in Arranged Marriages and Americans in
Marriages of Choice</p>
<p>Jayamala Madathil, Sonoma State University
James M. Benshoff, University of North Carolina at Greensboro</p>
<p>The Family Journal, Vol 16, No. 3, 222-230 (2008)</p>
<p>Abstract:</p>
<p>To date, little research has been published related to
cross-cultural differences in such marital factors as love,
intimacy, happiness, and satisfaction. The present study compares
factors contributing to marital satisfaction and examines
correlations between the importance of these factors and the level
of satisfaction for three groups: Asian Indians in arranged
marriages living in India (n = 229), Asian Indians in arranged
marriages living in the United States (n = 185), and Americans in
marriages of choice (n = 173). Results indicated significant
differences between the three groups on both total importance and
total satisfaction mean scores. Implications for multicultural
marriage counseling are discussed and recommendations for further
cross-cultural research are presented.</p>
<p>A similar 3 X 2 factorial ANOVA was used to study the effects of group
and gender on marital satisfaction. Results indicated significant
differences in total Satisfaction scores between the three
groups. Tukey’s test for multiple comparison between means indicated
that the AI-US scores (M= 110.9) were significantly higher than the
AI-India (M=103.8) and US-Choice (M=105.5) samples. [Page 225]</p>
<p>AI-US represents arranged marriages in the US. AI-India represents
arranged marriages in India. US-Choice represents Americans in
marriages of choice living in the United States.</p>
<p>Something I didn’t know but found interesting:</p>
<p>In India and the majority of the world’s cultures (Batabyal,
2001), marriages are arranged by family members, not by the
bride and groom (Skolnick, 1987). [Page 223]</p>
<p>“I realize this is an extreme. I also think that parents who claim to
be aware of all of their kid’s sexual activities are kidding
themselves.”</p>
<p>Then the burden of proof is on you to prove it for every child.</p>
<p>“And I also don’t think that young adults who DO engage in sexual acts
are void of morals, ethics and have received bad parenting as some
here seem to imply.”</p>
<p>That’s a strawman. Who made that claim? Void of morals?</p>
<p>“Some kids are open about it…others just tell you what you want to
hear, or nothing at all…”</p>
<p>A < 1 V A = 1 V A > 1 ?</p>
<p>You miss other variables.</p>
<p>“Young adults who cheat in their early relationships don’t necessarily
become destined to cheat as mature adults either. Jus remember,
people who live in glass houses…”</p>
<p>Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans.
Treas, Judith
Giesen, Deirdre
Journal of Marriage & Family; Feb2000, Vol. 62 Issue 1, p48, 13p, 3 charts</p>
<p>As we predicted, people who were more interested in sex were more
likely to have multiple partners. As we hypothesized, people with
nonpermissive values were less likely to engage in sexual
infidelity. Considering sexual opportunities, we found evidence that
prior sexual experiences were positively associated with
infidelity. The behavioral constraints posed by overlap of mates’
social networks reduced the likelihood of infidelity. In the short
run, so did involvement in a religious community: Those who often
attended religious services were less likely to have had multiple sex
partners in the previous year, even when sexual values associated with
religiosity were controlled. Sexual opportunities of the workplace
also increased the likelihood of infidelity during the last 12
months. At least in the short run, however, any effect of city
residence was substantially reduced when “cosmopolitan” sexual values
and tastes were controlled.</p>
<p>The nature of the primary relationship proved important. We found
cohabitors more likely than married people to engage in infidelity,
even when we controlled for permissiveness of personal values
regarding extramarital sex. This finding suggests that cohabitors’
lower investments in their unions, not their less conventional values,
accounted for their greater risk of infidelity. Cohabitors who went on
to marry were no less likely to demand sexual exclusivity than people
who married without having lived together. Neither the habituation nor
the investment hypothesis about the effects of union duration was
empirically supported.</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>Previous research reported that sexual infidelity is associated with
values, opportunities for secret sex, the quality of the primary
relationship, and sociodemographic risk factors. Integrating these
piecemeal findings into a unified model revealed some well-documented
relationships to be spurious. Our multivariate model also clarified
the mechanisms by which variables might influence infidelity. For
example, differences in tastes and values largely accounted for the
effects of city residence and male gender. Controlling for sexual
values, however, did not eliminate the significant association between
infidelity and cohabitation, a result that pointed to commitment
mechanisms as likely influences on sexual behavior. Nor could sexual
values account for the negative association of church-going and recent
infidelity. The multivariate analysis suggested that religiosity
constrained sexual behavior not only through internalized moral
beliefs, but also via supportive social networks. The integrated model
pointed to one clear result: Being subject to preferences,
constraints, and opportunities, sexual behavior is social behavior.</p>
<p>[BCEagle, it’s easy to tell when you have been “owned” on a thread
because you start resorting to attacks on everyone else’s style of
argument. We all have flawed logic, use straw men etc.]</p>
<p>Non sequitur.</p>
<p>[You certainly are entitled to your opinion, however flawed it
is. However, you don’t have a fraction of the knowledge about
teen/young adult culture that many of us on this board have. If you
think, as you seem to imply, that good parenting and family values is
a guarantee that one’s child won’t do some damaging things, you are
simply dead wrong. I could write pages about my involvement with
families of struggling teens, but I’ll just say that you truly don’t
have a clue. Just count your blessings.]</p>
<p>Strawman. Kids don’t come with guarantees.</p>
<p>Perhaps I don’t have a fraction of the knowledge of the culture that
you talk about but I do have access to a bunch of research databases
on psychology and sociology. And so far you are the guys that have it
wrong according to the research.</p>
<p>I can’t help smiling about the one about those who are involved in religioius communities not having multiple sexual partners. There sure are a lot of news stories of religious LEADERS who have had more than one sexual partner even if married! :)</p>
<p>[But the truths remain about kids, lies, sex, etc. Not all kids who lie
or have sex are awful kids…really truly, BC.]</p>
<p>The negation of a universal quantifier at best guarantees an
existential quantifier. That said, you wrote a strawman.</p>
<p>[Also, I would worry a bit with an 18 year old who confided all of his
personal life to his parents, and asked for advice on each and every
decision. It really is developmentally appropriate for children to
separate from their parents, even if they remain very close. The
separation is for complete development of identity, which cannot
happen if there is no autonomy in decision making. Sometimes the
decisions are good, sometimes not so good, but with strong parenting,
good education, encouragement, etc., most kids even get through
traumatic teen years intact. I have seen messes beyond words—crashed
cars, cutters, runaways, etc. Some have graduated from college, some
have wonderful and fulfilling lives. All had parents who cared deeply
and were not at “fault” for their children’s indiscretions. But they
also were honest. That made a difference.]</p>
<p>This is a minority perspective among world cultures.</p>
<p>“I can’t help smiling about the one about those who are involved in religioius communities not having multiple sexual partners. There sure are a lot of news stories of religious LEADERS who have had more than one sexual partner even if married!”</p>
<p>Well, research is about statistics, not the anecdotal cases.</p>
<p>The story of the OP is SUCH a common one with students who go off to college and think they will keep their HS sweetheart only to discover new relationships at college and they come home at Thanksgiving and drop the HS GF/BF. I mean that is how Turkey Drop came to be named. If this behavior is so out of whack, we sure have a lot of teens who are going through this stage of relationships. It doesn’t mean it all was right or nice, but it is NORMAL for this age group in this circumstance. Many don’t know how to break up with someone and put it off and while they shouldn’t move onto someone else, many teens do that and then break up. It is part of teenage development. If kids did everything as they “should”, they wouldn’t be…well, kids!</p>
<p>BCEagle…you you planning on arranged marriages for your children? It is not common in American culture. It is not something I’d want to emulate in other cultures. But if you are into it, good for you.</p>
<p>BCEagle, who cares if they are anecdotal cases. Religious folk don’t have a hold on monogamy. Many religious leaders have been guilty of infidelity. Some don’t practice what they preach. Some have preyed on minors. </p>
<p>You can be religious and still “sin.” You can be the greatest parents on Earth who teach their kids right from wrong and the kids still make mistakes and do some things that are not appropriate. </p>
<p>Back to the OP…it was a teachable moment, but not one to get angry about.</p>
<p>“BCEagle, who cares if they are anecdotal cases. Religious folk don’t have a hold on monogamy. Many religious leaders have been guilty of infidelity. Some don’t practice what they preach. Some have preyed on minors.”</p>
<p>Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example “my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99” does not disprove the proposition that “smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age”. In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.</p>
<p>In both cases the conclusion is unreliable; it might happen not to be untrue, but it doesn’t follow from the “evidence”.</p>
<p>Evidence can be anecdotal in both senses: “Goat yogurt prolongs life: I heard that a man in a mountain village who ate only yogurt lived to 120.”</p>
<p>The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Some anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy and is sometimes informally referred to as the “person who” fallacy (“I know a person who…”; “I know of a case where…” etc. Compare with hasty generalization). Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a “typical” experience; statistical evidence can more accurately determine how typical something is. [Wikipedia]</p>
<p>Are you familiar with Scientific Method?</p>
<p>BCEagle91 - A really quick response (I don’t have the time or the patience you seem to have)</p>
<p>Not having read either paper thoroughly - or looked for other data - even though the stats are significant the numbers are very small - who were the people sampled and are they truly representative. And what were the items on the surveys - and were they reliable and replicable, etc. etc. Statistics can be used to prove almost any argument. In order to use reliable research to prove a point you need more than one study and to look for studies that have the opposite opinion.</p>
<p>BCEagle91 - What were your teenage years like? Did you ever lie, cheat, mislead? Etc.</p>
<p>“Not having read either paper thoroughly - or looked for other data -
even though the stats are significant the numbers are very small - who
were the people sampled and are they truly representative. And what
were the items on the surveys - and were they reliable and replicable,
etc. etc. Statistics can be used to prove almost any argument. In
order to use reliable research to prove a point you need more than one
study and to look for studies that have the opposite opinion.”</p>
<p>I thought that I was pushing the bounds on fair use as it is on the
first article. The methodology on the first paper looks good. It
stated that there is very little research in the area and that it is a
jumping off point for further research. I recommend reading the entire
article as it clarified various aspects about culture that I wasn’t
aware of.</p>
<p>The second article summarized previous research and added analysis.
The added analysis didn’t look hugely different from the previous
research and I think that the researchers weren’t surprised at that.</p>
<p>“What were your teenage years like?”</p>
<p>I was a teenage hacker.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, there’s a book waiting for me to write! I don’t know how, but I managed to do some pretty awful (and unlawful) things in high school (at all all girl’s Catholic high school) and college. I used to tell friends that my parents (who were a bit older) had no idea of what I was up to, and they’d all say, “I’ll bet they suspect, but just want to be in denial.” In recent years, I’ve asked some of my cousins who my mom was close with after I moved away, and they all say, “Your mom truly had no idea.” </p>
<p>So, given my history, I figured karma was going to come back and bite me with my own two daughters. However, I was one of those odd parents who was truthful with my daughters, and gave them generalizations of the kinds of things I did (without any specific detail), and why I can now look back and see that there was soooo much wrong with the things I did. Neither one has had a long-term serious relationship, and D2 seems to go out of her way to tell me that she’s not having sex (Our latest conversation was when she was home at Thanksgiving and she told me she’d figured out how to not have headaches related to her cycles - she takes her birth control pill every other day {was originally put on them for very bad cycles} - so she hasn’t had a period since September. I questioned her about it, and she said it didn’t matter if she didn’t take it every day as it’s not like she’s having sex, and she still gets the benefits of hormones.) Also, she has become somewhat judgmental of her roommate who has developed a habit of hooking up (not in their dorm room) this semester, and seems very disappointed in her. I doubt she would be this vocal if she was engaging in the same behavior.</p>
<p>I’d like to go back to an issue that someone brought up regarding how parent’s react to various indiscretions, and especially academic cheating in school. I think the reason some parents have a stronger reaction to cheating in school because it’s basically breaking a rule set by the school that the student has agreed to adhere to, usually by signing some agreement. The consequences are spelled out somewhere, and it often involves legal action. Further, kids can basically be kicked out of school for academic cheating (while they can’t be for screwing around on their bf/gf). I think this is why some parents would be mortified at their child’s academic cheating, but not quite so much with their child’s romantic relationships.</p>
<p>People should have the decency to end the first relationship BEFORE cheating and/or starting another with someone else. And that applies to some married people we know too-- not just kids.</p>