Who were you shouting at? Was there a group of white nationalists in your area that was holding an event which you attended so you could shout at them? Or were you at a separate event, shouting with friends?
There are a few versions of the aphorism, my favorite of which is “Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty and the pig likes it.”
Holding your counter-protest at the same time and venue as the group you are protesting, and shouting in their faces counts in my book as wrestling with the pig. If fights break out, which they did in Charlottesville, you both get dirty. And the pigs like it a lot. Their protests got a lot more publicity than they would have if the counter-protesters had kept their distance. I never heard of Milo Yiannopoulis before his scheduled event on a campus was violently protested. He and others like him are using the “resistance” to build their reputations. So sure, protest away. But you know what they say about the road to (word I can’t type here.)
I expressed myself badly. No, there was no opposing demonstration (although we did come across a group of guys who gave us the finger and made fun of the protest). We shouted slogans. Everything from “this is what democracy looks like” to “white silence is violence” and “black lives matter.” The latter two upset some people, most of whom don’t really understand the sentiment behind them.
When I come across a protest I disagree with I leave.
As to that road… well, it leads to Auschwitz, too. So I will resist today and tomorrow. We’ve seen what these “patriots” are capable of. I will not allow them to repeat history, even if my own comfort or safety is compromised as results. The stakes are simply too high in this one.
@katliamom, I admire your goals, but am only suggesting that it is important not just to have good intentions, but to make sure our actions further our intentions rather than undermining them. It is sometimes the case that counterprotesters are goaded into actions that defeat their stated intent. Resisting evil is necessary. Participating in an event set up by those you think are evil is not.
People from Chicago and Detroit (which are highly segregated areas) were shown videos of neighborhoods and asked to rate their desirability. The videos showed various SES class neighborhoods, with either all white, mixed (60% white, 40% black), and all black people in them.
Controlling for SES class of the neighborhoods shown, white people’s preferences were all white > mixed > all black, while black people’s preferences were mixed ≈ all black > all white, though black people’s preferences on racial composition were weaker than white people’s preferences.
@doschicos - shouting is fine. So is carrying a confederate flag. I hate the confederate flag, but there’s nothing against the law with carrying one. Protesters carrying guns should leave the guns and all weapons at home.
And the tiki torches that those idiots were carrying…how ironic…their march was all about “white power” and ridiculous stuff like that, yet there they were…carrying around something that basically comes from a native culture. Cultural appropriation much? They looked like fools.
I bring up the confederate flag symbol, @tucsonmom, because these self-proclaimed “militia” with their self-appointed “peacekeeper” role they anointed themselves with, were wearing confederate flag patches. How is that impartial on someone showing up with assault weapons and full uniforms claiming to be neutral and not representing LEO? It’s confusing, misleading, baiting, etc.
If we knew these racists were going to show up with tiki torches, we should have shown up and handed them leis and coconut bras to complete their look.
Well, with confederate flag patches, of course they are not impartial. I didn’t say that it was impartial. One would have to research the gun laws in Virginia and in Charlottesville to determine whether or not open carry of firearms is permitted. If it is permitted, then it is likely that they were within the law to do so.
However, I would argue that open carrying a firearm in that situation is really really dumb.
It seems to me that people who publicly proclaim the white nationalists to be a strong and growing and powerful group that scares us are helping with their recruiting. They couldn’t pay for better endorsements.
But guys in khaki pants, carrying wooden shields, pool cues, and tiki torches? Who can hold in their laughter at that sight?
The visions burned in my eyes from this past weekend are watching people spew hate, wearing and carrying symbols that belong nowhere but in a museum about war and holocaust atrocities, and physically pummeling and beating people, and mowing them down with a vehicle, all with hate and fury in their faces.
All too often now protests turn violent. Maybe it’s the media or maybe it’s just that some people like to go and hurt others. I’m not sure… but I don’t want my kids protesting when there is a chance they may end up a victim.
I would hope that college teaches that you don’t fight irrationality with more irrationality like shouting slogans at each other. You don’t engage in mob activity or violence. You stay away from dangerous situations. Anyway, that is what I would teach my children.
I think we’re all in agreement that any violence and weapons are wrong but I don’t understand objections to protests, marches, slogans,chants. If one’s personal preference is to not attend, fine, but blanket dismissal? Why? I it is because you think hey are ineffective, I disagree. Don’t follow “law and order”? I disagree with that as well.
@MichiganGeorgia protests getting violent is nothing new. Even the Boston Tea Party wasn’t a party
That said, I would also advise my kids to stay away from something like the tiki torch rally in C’ville. I may be an activist/protester now that I work only part time – but I’m not stupid. You need to be healthy and whole to resist & fight evil.
I support peaceful protests. I think they ARE effective and important. I have marched and protested, myself. But I have never committed any acts of violence or vandalism.
However.
I also think that the ability to protest at will is actually a form of privilege, and holders of that privilege should be respectful of those who do not possess that privilege. For example, I work in Times Square. There are protests of one sort or another very frequently. It’s one thing to say that Dr. King’s landmark marches were crucial, necessary and life altering, but it’s also important to remember that the people most harmed by being unable to get to/from work or to have their budgets upended from paying childcare overages are people of color and people lacking in education and professional freedom. Values and principles are important. Paying the rent is important too.
Whenever you go to a march, protest, sit-in, etc, you don’t know who else will show up. And you don’t know if they’ll be peaceful. There were counter-protesters at the women’s marches post inauguration, and it didn’t get ugly. You hope for the best, stay out of volatile exchanges, and plan exits (often impossible to execute in a crowd, though.)
When I was younger, I didn’t really think this kind of political activity could change much. I have changed my mind on that as I have realized how many people fear speaking out or taking action without the support of others. These gatherings are evidence that they are not alone, and they provide courage. They connect different activist communities pursuing the same goals. They signal to politicians that some portion of the electorate are engaged around an issue. Look at the sentiments that have been given voice in the last year if you need evidence.
I have told my child that I expect him to take action on issues that matter to him. Of course, I want him to pay attention to his safety. And if a rally or protest isn’t the way he wants to do this, that’s fine. We can’t all give all of our support to everything that matters to us - there simply aren’t enough hours in the day or dollars in the bank. But his actions need to reflect his values and give his life meaning. There are lots of ways of doing this, but doing nothing isn’t one of them.
