It’s a political AND a moral issue. I did not say that it was NOT a moral issue. I disagree with others who say that it is not a political issue. Political issues are often full of moral issues. Consider any of the socioeconomic issues that are part of any Congressional or presidential race. Those are moral issues. They are also political issues.
I am dismayed that people in this country do not understand the principles of the First Amendment. You can spew whatever hatred you want as long as you just speak and don’t call for immediate violence as in “Let’s burn this place down”. That’s not allowed. If your cause is as pure as Mom, baseball and apple pie, you still cannot assault people without risking arrest.
From the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html
Cousin is FBI agent and has, on many occasions, noted the increasing danger of these home grown white sup, neo, alt right idiot groups. They are a very real threat and are growing in influence.
First Amendment does not protect you from the consequences of your hate speech. March with your tiki torches and find your family has disowned you, you have no job and people generally think you are a creep.
I’d be very proud and supportive if my children wanted to participate in any protest that calls out these people for what they are…vile human beings. Would I condone them assaulting these creeps? No, but I’d have no problem with them defending themselves if they were attacked.
We are at a critical turning point here folks and it sickens me people are stretching at condoning these actions. It’s shameful. It’s a sad day for our country…
TatinG, please show us who on this thread doesn’t understand the first amendment.
And I would like to point out that while both “sides” may have engaged in violence, only one came specifically to spew hate and to threaten people – unless you don’t consider racism and anti-Semitism to be hateful or threatening – and only one side was murderous.
One of the White Supremacists who attacked Deandre Harris with a pipe was not only confirmed and outed by former HS classmates, police from his former residence have confirmed he has a juvie record which includes threatening a classmate with a knife over a cookie and classmates from as far back as middle school recounted he frequently expressed pro-Nazi views and drew swastikas.
I’m just going to put this out here - it’s the report on Charlottesville from VICE news. I don’t know if anyone has posted it yet. It’s kind of long (22 minutes) but worth viewing if you haven’t seen it, but be warned - there’s some graphic footage, especially when the car plows in the crowd.
Disgusting. Christopher Cantwell, a white nationalist leader, claims at the end that says the protest was “worth it” and that “a lot more people are going to die before we’re done here.”
Well beating people with clubs can be murderous. But for the grace of God, we would have lost other lives.
@TatinG, it appears to me that you are the only one who doesn’t understand the First Amendment if you think people on this thread, people who are appalled, and those who protested against the Nazi’s and KKK don’t understand it.
I should have been clearer. I was referring to some of the pundits on TV and some politicians who want to prohibit the neo-Nazis from getting permits to speak in public parks because of their beliefs. That is a First Amendment violation. There are some out there who want to ban these groups from coming to their towns because of what they say. That is a First Amendment violation. There are those who say ‘hate speech is not protected by the First Amendment’. Wrong.
Getting fired from your private company job for being a neo-Nazi or a member of any other organization or speaking one’s opinions is not protected speech as the Google guy found out.
The First doesn’t protect dangerous speech so, for instance, Boston is putting restrictions on the planned White Nationalists protest. If they don’t want to abide by those rules they don’t get the permit. The Boston mayor says the group is welcome to take the city to court.
Which I think is responsible and more than reasonable. Being free to speak, protest, assemble doesn’t mean that public safety professionals shouldn’t be in charge and in control of such events at all times.
A professor of Constitutional Law instructs on the First Amendment pertaining to neo-Nazis and Antifa groups.
A public campus or city must remain ‘content-neutral’. Restrictions on rallies, assemblies etc. must apply to all groups whether they be Neo-Nazis, Greens, Republicans, Democrats or whatever. Slogans like “Beat The Hell Out of Hate” are not incitements to riot.
The explanation is in this article.
The ACLU of Virginia on the Charlottesville riot. They say law enforcement stood passively by, waiting for violence to occur so they could declare the gathering an unlawful assembly and clear the area.
Wow.
to respond to the OP’s question: protest if you wish, but if antifa show up and police back away, then leave quickly.
What do I tell my kids?
I tell them to think through possible consequences, when it comes to protesting. I emphasize the importance of a peaceful show of unity, while recognizing the possibility of violence erupting. I don’t want them to get hurt, but I understand the importance of defending the ideals upon which our country was founded. Protest? Don’t protest? It’s a personal choice…their choice.
We, as a nation, are at a critical juncture. I see it in my own community. There are elements of the alt-right message that strikes a chord with those who see diversity as anti-white, anti-male and anti-Christian. They’re kind, college-educated and not likely to resort to violence, however they view the direction of change as a threat.
I shared with my children something that resonates with me. When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. I told them to remember that and not be quick to judgment. Understand no one likes to be judged. Try to address the ideals, while avoiding personal attacks, if possible. And lastly, you must be able to adapt if you want to survive, let alone thrive.
Vox has an interesting interview with several conservatives in Alabama and quotes from a conservative talk radio station. Evidently, many feel it is Obama’s fault.
I don’t even know how to build common ground with these views.
University of Florida has also denied event request.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/08/16/university-of-florida-denies-white-nationalist-event-request-citing-serious-concerns-for-safety/?utm_term=.31d175229b78
In regards to the sentiment that personal safety and the safety of our families and homes should be our first consideration, one thing that history, as far back as we can see, has taught us is that when the world is changing, the only safe place to be is on the side of justice and mercy.
Texas A&M canceled an supremacy event, citing safety concerns. They had changed facility reservation rules last year after Richard Spencer. The new rules required outside groups or individuals to have sponsorship from a university-sanctioned group to reserve campus facilities. http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/texas-white-nationalist-protest-trnd/
Even though UVa was not part of any permit process ( the city of Charlottesville was), these white supremacists found their way onto the open, ungated grounds of UVa anyway the night before the Saturday rally. Swarming the grounds, carrying torches. The images are so chilling.