After reading the news that’s come out in the last few minutes I am SO in danger of violating CC’s TOS. All I can say is that false equivalencies are very dangerous and I’m sickened by anyone who would say that some White Supremacists are “very fine people”.
The people whose minds really need to be changed are those who seemingly quietly sympathize with some of the same goals (e.g. worried about the US becoming not majority white in the future and therefore supportive of policies to keep America white) and who need to be shown that the logical conclusion of policies aimed at such goals is something undesirable and evil, including for white people.
Lack of counter protests could very well be interpreted as lack of opposition to the goals espoused by the Nazi marchers, so that such quiet sympathizers of some of the same goals are not forced to think about the implications of those goals and possibly rethink their support of them.
Obviously, counter protesters should avoid initiating violence (meaning, the black maskers who show up to initiate violence are not friends or allies here).
I know folks, in general, are “tired of politics” but what does this issue have to do with politics? To me, this is about decency! The lack of willingness by many folks to engage and shout it from the rooftops is scary and sad to me. I’ve always wondered how Nazi Germany and the Holocaust could happen. Now I have some idea.
Whether I agree with you or not, I appreciate all posters who have been willing to engage in this discussion and exchange thoughts and ideas.
I tell my children that it matters deeply, be safe and do the right thing. To have courage in the face of evil and call it what it is.
Hey, lets not go after each other. We all do what we can and we all have our priorities. Some volunteer at the local food pantry, some work a phone bank, some march and others need all their energy just to put food on the table. Choosing to make our children’s safety our greatest priority is no less valuable than choosing to send them out into the world to protest. I may choose to march, but I have to admit I don’t show up for every event. There’s only so much bandwidth available to each of us.
Yes, of course, there are different ways to engage in the issue and transmit that white supremacy shouldn’t be tolerated in this country. In my post above, for the record so others here don’t feel attacked, it was a general comment (and a venting of frustration) about us as a nation, not directed at posters here who prefer not to protest. I do sincerely appreciate the engagement here.
I like to stay away from discussions like this, but I think an important piece has been missed. As I type this, I sit across from a man who is a closet white supremacist. He was heavily armed for his hunting but believes in the coming race war. Except for his occasional disparaging remark about minorities, you would never know. He has three college degrees and an impressive professional resume.
Same goes for the majority of the members of the “Friends of Donald J. Trump” discussion group I am part of as a token “liberal” (I’m not very liberal). Discussions tend to get wildly off-topic. For the most part, they agree with 99% of the politics and sentiments of the white supremacy movement and regularly share posts from the Daily Stormer, alt-right sub-reddits and other “news” sources. Most have college degrees including Ivies (1 Cornell, 1 Dartmouth that I know of). There is a large representation of LEO and retired military. Because of careers, most are much more careful in public. Some do not need to be and ride their Harleys proudly displaying their feelings on their wardrobes like the marchers.
The president of the WSU Young Republicans was there. He made news last year for mocking Hispanics, this year for attending the rally. He turned in his resignation as president but will be a vocal part of the organization starting next week. Their membership is now majority alt-right which is how he was elected. He tried to attend without repercussions but was outed on social media.
So all the labels of the marchers as losers, idiots, pigs is off. It is the tip of a very large iceberg. They have the backing and tacit approval of lots of other people in this country, normal looking friends and neighbors with money and power. Thinking about these as a small, isolated groups that will die off on their own misses the feelings of large chunks of white America.
Thanks for sharing your first hand experiences, @Magnetron. They mirror some of what I’ve seen and heard. People are quick to dismiss white supremacists and their sympathizers as declining or losers or other comments that try to diminish the threat. I think that is a grave error for the reasons you have highlighted.
It’s a very political issue. Always has been.
Re: #246 and #247
Yes, @Magnetron’s experiences also mirror academic studies like the one that found that a majority of white Americans are worried about the changing ethnic makeup of the US and others that looked into “group status threat”, or the one that found that white people from the Chicago and Detroit areas were more prone to have self-segregative housing preferences than black people from those areas.
This does not mean that they are unchangeably evil extremist Nazis or such, but it does mean that, as previously mentioned, the Nazis are just the tip of the iceberg. But perhaps some of the less extreme ones who hold similar views may be open to considering that a more racist country is not a more desirable one, even for those supposedly at the top of the racial hierarchy therein.
Speaking of being armed, a statistic I read last night: There are estimated to be 340 million guns in America. Half are owned by just 3% of the population.
Before the protests and marches of Friday and Saturday, there were people who were not white supremacists who supported keeping the Lee statue. That included members of the city council and history professors from UVa. The mayor of Richmond is not in favor of removing the statues from Monument Avenue. Now though with fear of violence, they may be torn down.
Let’s not pretend this Unite the Right rally was all about protecting the statue and free speech, not when they are chanting anti-semitic slogans.
This may be an example of the media misreporting information. FP claims FBI and DHS warned it was a growing threat, but their source, https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/documents/3924852-White-Supremacist-Extremism-JIB.html, does not support that. In their source, it is described as a persistent threat, and nowhere in there does the FBI and DHS claim the threat is growing or increasing.
Look at earlier reports, @roethlisburger. May 2017 wasn’t the first time the FBI has monitored and reported on this subject.
^If you’re claiming the FBI and DHS stated it was a growing threat, the burden of proof is on you to provide a link.
@roethlisburger I’ll leave you to your own google searches. Anything I’ll link to will be discounted by you due to the source or deemed too controversial or political for CC. I know what I believe based on my own research. If you and others want to not believe what I believe, so be it. For the sake of our country, I actually hope you are right. My research and personal experiences have biased me in the other direction.
For other interesting reading on the matter, google FBI, “law enforcement” and “white supremacy”.
“It’s a very political issue. Always has been.”
No it’s not. It’s a moral issue.
People wanting people like me (and many other groups) dead or deported is not a political issue. (The “Neo”-Nazis last weekend made it clear what they want done with Jewish people.) It’s a human issue.
To reduce Nazism down to politics is incomprehensible to me.
Are any of you dismayed we’re even having this discussion? This can’t be real. This must be some kind of alternate universe 