Exactly! Hanna is right on. It’s irritating that certain conservative corners always like to throw out Godwin’s Law as a trope to stop the conversation, even in cases where it is particularly relevant. After all, we’re talking about white supremacists - who fly the Third Reich flag and symbols, tattoo themselves with Nazi symbols, throw up the Hitler salute. Seems like a very appropriate time to draw corollaries, to me.
The willingness of individuals to post here trying to deflect away and excuse what is going on is very disturbing to me.
And to underscore @hanna’s point, the domestic terrorist suspect who deliberately ran over some counter-demonstrators in Charlotteviille had strong pro-Nazi and pro-Hitler inclinations as a high school student according to one of his former HS teachers:
With that mention, seems like a good time to quote the last facebook post of the victim who died from that car attack, Heather Heyer: “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.
And now there are parents on the UVa forum (OOS) saying they know kids who will no longer apply to UVa because of this. Somehow, I wonder if Nazis congregated in a field near Harvard , brought torches, unlawfully assembled, descended on Harvard Yard and surrounded the statue of John Harvard , if Harvard would suddenly “come off the list.” This is not about the Robert E. Lee statue, UVa , or Charlottesville. This is about hate. Most of these agitators were not from Virginia and leaders from UVa , Charlottesville, and Virginia strongly denounced this. These hate groups will do anything to advance their agenda and they are everywhere and will go anywhere to incite trouble. They are despicable.
“The willingness of individuals to post here trying to deflect away and excuse what is going on is very disturbing to me.”
^^^This^^^. I’ve been following the thread and agree with @doschicos 100%. Just as I was taught by my Civil Rights marching protesting parents, and I teach my children the same:
“If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.”
^^ An election that led to my favorite political bumper sticker of all time, in support of Edwin Edwards, the notoriously corrupt Democrat who ended up winning:
Vote for the Crook: It’s Important."
Are people seriously trying to compare the USA to post-WWI Germany???
Anyway, the only people around to hear those losers in Virginia should have been a bunch of cops with lots of handcuffs, ready to take charge if the slightest amount of violence erupted or laws were broken.
Again, this started on Friday, when these “losers” made a sneak attack on Friday night on the grounds of UVa, a World Heritage Site. Carrying torches , no permit to assemble. A very frightening, chilling , intimidating scene. The police did not even know this was going to happen. UVa students and personnel locked arms and faced backwards to surround the Thomas Jefferson statue, before the police arrived. These hate groups marched on the Lawn, near the Rotunda, and statue before they could finally be dispersed for unlawful assembly.
There is pretty good evidence that the police didn’t step in to help when protesters were being savagely beaten by the white supremacists.
One was beaten right next to the police station.
We’ll see what happens. I’m anxious to see whether or not the cops try and arrest the people who were caught on film beating unarmed (mostly black) people. Their faces are clearly seen and many of them have already been identified.
Counter-protesters show up in large part to let targetted communities know that these people do not speak for them. Unless you have been part of a targeted community, I think it can be very difficult to understand just how painful the silence can be when someone is openly spewing hate against your community and no one is fighting back.
The University of Missouri experienced a huge drop in enrollment after the protests there. The drop was so big that some dorms were closed. The university had a big drop in revenue. The difference is that in that case it was the campus community causing the trouble. In this case most of the people involved were from other towns even other states.
Do you want a bunch of vigilantes running around? Let the cops do their jobs and if that doesn’t happen, find out why and keep it from happening again.
Vigilantes? If you read back through this thread, folks have been talking about peaceful counter protests. Seems, again, disingenuous to equate it to something else and use inflammatory language which isn’t applicable.
Same thing happened at UC Berkeley…campus police stood by and did nothing while people were attacked, businesses were ransacked, and property was destroyed. Campus police were instructed to stand down and not do anything. Even when they saw someone getting beaten to a pulp, they did nothing.
In hindsight, there should have been more police keeping the two sides apart and they should have barricaded the streets to prevent a car attack. There are photos showing both sides attacking the other. Other than the murderer, I haven’t seen any news reports of others being arrested for assault, although many are clearly pictured. One man sprayed another with Mace, another with a flame thrower can.
In college (I graduated 2016) I knew a number of white men who gladly shared Milo Y posts on social media and who would freely associate with the alt right. While they would likely never claim to be a white nationalist or a Neo-Nazi, many were extremely sympathetic to their ideals.
I truly believe that it is vital to vigorously counter protest these overt talks as well as attempt to distribute counter radicalization literature. Even associating with these ideologues should be made to be shameful, not just for those who chant overtly racist, anti-Semitic BS, but also for the millions more who might be sympathetic to at least some of the bigots’ views. If you know that publicly voicing your support for alt right leaders will cause your friends to distance themselves from you, perhaps you will be less likely to speak about them.
Wow…the false equivalent events bring brought out…especially considering one person was murdered by someone who was known to harbor Pro-Nazi views since HS and several others beaten by bona-fide Neo-Nazis on this thread is amazing.
Ironic how even 2 decades ago, this level of moral haziness and attempts to morally equivocate would have been appalling to most…especially the old neighbors who fought against the Nazis in the ETO…
^ Agreed. Further proof that the propaganda machine that has started reaching into Main Street America is effective and efficient. As a consumer of many forms of media from very conservative to very liberal and everything in between in an effort to stay aware of different viewpoints, it is obvious to me what sources of “news” certain posters are consuming. There are specific themes and specific lingo and buzzwords that flow from certain camps.
So does the first amendment protect the rights of people who say horrible things or does it not?
…and I have consistently called those things abhorrent, awful, idiotic.
By the act of stating that even things I consider awful actually should be afforded their constitutional due, I get a share of the shout-down, a touch of the name calling, a bit of the hate.
To go back on topic, you tell your kid to stay away from any chaotic, prone to violence mess. To spend their time figuring out a solution, reaching the vulnerable and dissuading them from becoming extremists, rather than adding to the noise and violence.
And if they can’t, then to count and accept the cost with dignity. That’s my advice to my kid.
I’m on the side of law-and-order. Whose side are you on?
In many of the riot/violent photos, I see a bunch of idiots with Nazi crap on and a bunch of idiots with black masks on, both carrying weapons and shields and looking for a fight. Is that what you mean by “fighting back”?