Do you agree with me that the murderer/terrorist should be tried, convicted, and executed?
My advice to my kid would be to not participate in any such protests, but if she chose to attend anyway, to be street smart about it and not do anything dumb like get into a shouting match with somebody from the other protest group who passionately disagrees with you (i.e., is shouting in your face, ready to push you down & beat you up).
Did Charlotteville, VA or UVA* ban those White supremacists or agents of the government such as LEOs arrest them for gathering together and protesting?
Unless you can point to an instance where they were banned or arrested by a government agency, their First Amendment rights were honored.
However, the First Amendment ALSO gives the right of private citizens/groups who aren’t part of the government to voice their disagreements and criticize them for their speech/manner in delivering that speech.
Thus, any banning of counterprotestors from holding protests or doing so in the vincinity of the protestors they’re opposing on the part of governments at any level would BE A VIOLATION OF THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
The First Amendment also doesn’t grant one the freedom to avoid criticism of one’s exercise of free speech.
- As a public university, UVA is also legally bound to honor the First Amendment as an arm of the government whereas that's not the case with a private university.
Technically, due to the Governor declaring a state of emergency, the rally for Saturday was officially cancelled (didn’t stop so many from being there though). The need to cancel it was in large part due to the aggression shown by the white supremacists when they gathered for an unauthorized “kickoff” on Friday night on the UVa campus and the resulting ugliness and violence they evoked. I think any limitations to their freedoms were of their own making in this case.
In short, the White Supremacists went well beyond the scope of peaceably assembly and exercise of their Free Speech rights. Further underscoring the speciousness of anyone insinuating their free speech rights were violated.
Regarding #29
Still, even if the percentage is off from the stated 22% of white Americans being very worried about the changing ethnic makeup of the US and 42% being somewhat worried, that still leaves a large percentage of white Americans who would likely be triggered in support of groups chanting slogans about “not being replaced” and the like.
Indeed, the 1990s in California was a somewhat milder prelude. Racism did increase in California during that time, but mostly in electoral politics rather than extending beyond that to Nazi rallies and such, with propositions that were widely seen as anti-non-white “dog whistles” (that won, though some of them were later either invalidated in court or changed by subsequent propositions). California did actually turn majority non-white around 2000, and recently got to the point where white people are no longer the plurality either. Because the California Republicans of the 1990s hitched their electoral fortunes to those propositions, they had some short term electoral success, but medium/long term electoral decline since they had a hard time selling themselves to non-white voters.
Now this “threat” of white people no longer being the majority eventually seems to be noticed nationwide. Combine it with economic trends where most view economic growth as mainly benefiting those who are already wealthy (with some scraps going to the upper middle class and little for the rest, causing more people to think of the economy as a zero or negative sum entity as far as they are concerned) and it is not hard to see that the conditions are ripe for increased racism.
Indeed, even on these forums, you can find opinions like one stating that ethnic and cultural homogeneity is a “huge plus” (even though the example of ethnic and cultural homogeneity is not actually as homogeneous as the poster believes):
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/20380872/#Comment_20380872
" that still leaves a large percentage of white Americans who would likely be triggered in support of groups chanting slogans about “not being replaced” and the like."
I see your point, @ucbalumnus, and what a nice, ripe environment to fan the flames with inflammatory rhetoric and white supremacy platforms! That and other factors contribute to the mainstreaming of white nationalism and the increasing ranks of those committed to their cause and those sympathetic. Another reason for concern. Scary stuff and time to wake up to the white supremacists in your midst. They’re not your old school skinheads. They’re often that clean cut looking young man with the freshly barbered side fade haircut and nice suit.
Re: Godwin’s Law, here’s what Godwin himself had to say on Facebook:
“By all means, compare these #%$$ [my censoring] to the Nazis. Again and again. I’m with you.”
Wish there was a love button, @anomander. Thanks for sharing. :x
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/splc-guide-dealing-with-alt-right/index.html
https://www.splcenter.org/20170810/alt-right-campus-what-students-need-know
From @alh 's link (bold is my own emphasis):
When an alt-right personality is scheduled to speak on campus, the most effective course of action is to deprive the speaker of the thing he or she wants most – a spectacle. Alt-right personalities know their cause is helped by news footage of large jeering crowds, heated confrontations and outright violence at their events. It allows them to play the victim and gives them a larger platform for their racist message. Denying an alt-right speaker of such a spectacle is the worst insult they can endure.
Exactly what I’ve been saying. And this:
While there’s nothing wrong with peaceful student protests against a hateful ideology, it’s best to draw attention to hope instead. Hold an alternative event – away from the alt-right event – to highlight your campus’ commitment to inclusion and our nation’s democratic values
I would replace “alt-right” in the above with “violent/extremist group”, because it applies equally to all of these idiots.
Spencer is taking his hateful rhetoric to Texas A & M’s campus in early September. The university is not pleased.
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/13/white-nationalist-rally-counter-protest-planned-texas-m-sept-11/
…At the top of a Saturday press release announcing the event, Wiginton declared “TODAY CHARLOTTESVILLE TOMORROW TEXAS A&M,” referencing the violence in Virginia.
Word of the planned rally generated immediate outrage on social media. Within hours, a counter protest had been planned. That event will be called “BTHO Hate,” the name of which borrows from an A&M football chant expressing the desire to “beat the hell outta” the opposing team. …
Exactly, droppedit.
This weekend was awful. We live 30 minutes from Charlottesville, my husband works on the downtown mall in Charlottesville. My daughter is heading to UVA this weekend and any week I can be there 3 days at least. We talked to our kids about not going to protest while they are in college and our reason for hoping they don’t. Safety is the only reason. Unfortunately this weekend reinforced that. I don’t think any minds are going to be changed at a protest, find other ways to make a difference.
I was sickened on Saturday morning to read that the white supremacist came on grounds to intimidate and harass students and faculty. President Sullivan and the University did a fantastic job in communicating to the parents of students.
One of my sons friends was suppose to go to a concert on the mall and I was surprised that he and his father went downtown that day. They weren’t part of the protest just trying to get somewhere. The mall is closed to car traffic except on two cross streets. Well they were right by the grey car that ran over those people, they easily could have been killed. They were detained for several hours while the police tried to interview witnesses. I am so sorry that they saw the victims. My son came to me later in the day after talking with his friend and says he understands why I think his safety is the most important thing to consider.
I have two kids heading to college in the next two weeks and I have ask both to stay away from protest and if they are somewhere with a crowd that is angry to please find a safe place to be.
“There comes a time, when silence is betrayal.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
My perspective is that protesting peacefully against the hate serves two purposes.
One is to let minorities know that society has their back. Often when they leave their homes they cannot simply choose to be safe.
The second is express moral clarity to people who are somewhat sympathetic to the racists and put them on notice that this way of thinking is not acceptable. Consider it visual peer pressure.
I agree. I also think that there are other ways of peaceful protesting than demonstrating, such as clearly disavowing hateful rhetoric or behavior, and shunning holders of such views who cross our paths.
What I don’t think is acceptable is ever bringing violence to a protest, even one with which we vehemently and passionately disagree. There will never be a good outcome to this.
I think the Southern Poverty Law Center link, posted in #89, is well worth reading in its entirety. There are helpful strategies for those of us who do want to oppose alt-right discourse on college campuses in the most positive manner possible. I am definitely in that group, so this was interesting and helpful for me.
Sue22 touched on some of this upthread.
Too late, since they have already succeeded in drowning out other voices. (Of course, some have willingly given them their voices by voting for political candidates with similar viewpoints.)
What is happening here is analogous to what happened to Muslims as groups like Al Qaeda and Daesh did their best to steal their voices (and mostly successfully in the US and many other places where the extremist groups’ success is measured in overt hatred against all Muslims which is used as a recruiting tool by the extremist groups).
Taking back one’s voice is a lot harder than getting it stolen in the first place.
Really??? They have succeeded in drowning out other voices? You are post 98 in this thread, and I don’t hear any voices supporting their cause. My local paper and every news article I have seen has very negative coverage of this rather small group and their racist rhetoric. Politicians from both major parties and all regions issued condemnations of the racists and the violence. Protests erupted all over the nation responding to this event. How can you think they have drowned out anyone?
The white supremacist event took weeks of planning and coordination and invited racists from all over the nation to a southern state, and managed to find maybe a couple thousand people to come out. This group, or collection of groups, is contemptible, but don’t give them credit for doing more than they have. Call them out as hateful and wrong, but don’t claim they are 10 feet tall. They are not.