Turning the Other Cheek - What to Tell Your Kids About Campus Area Protests

2 Police officers in different states could find humor in the weekend’s death:

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/police-officers-in-two-states-accused-of-mocking-charlottesville-violence-1.482816#.WZIj4ZXdteU
"After the weekend of unrest in Virginia, police officers in two separate states are under investigation over social media posts that allegedly mocked the violence at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.

Officers with the Shively Police Department in Kentucky and Springfield Police Department in Massachusetts allegedly made fun of a fatal car crash that occurred during a rally Saturday in which hundreds of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klan members clashed with counterprotesters. Heather D. Heyer, 32, of Charlottesville was killed and many others were wounded in the attack…"

Please note the newspaper I chose. No one can claim “liberal bias”

Wow OP, I haven’t read this whole thread, but are you really blaming the counter protesters for speaking up against hatred? I am proud when my kids protest against wrong things.

There are ways to “protest” that do not involve participating in a march or a demonstration.

Lots of people in this thread have discussed a lot of WWII history. Consider all of the protesters throughout Europe who went under the radar and successfully hid Jewish families so they wouldn’t be taken away to concentration camps. Those people did not formally protest in a march or a rally. Does that mean that they did not make a difference?

Some people can’t attend protests marches because they have to earn a living and put a roof over their heads, yet they still support the cause(s) which the protest marches are all about. Does that mean that those individuals are part of the problem?

Just because you did not hear or see somebody protesting on TV or on social media does not mean that the individual who you are judging does not care. Nor does it mean that he/she is sitting by and doing nothing. It could just mean that the person is choosing to support their causes in other ways that will not result in their pictures being blasted all over the evening news.

What about the individual who chooses to donate money to their favorite causes rather than attend protest marches & demonstrations? Isn’t that an acceptable form of supporting your favorite cause? For example, one could make a donation to the ACLU or the Southern Poverty Law Center or any number of reputable charitable organizations of your choosing.

One could also argue that just going to a protest march is the easy way out. If you really care about it, then why don’t you also volunteer your time at the local branch of that organization? Or go and knock on doors to raise money for that organization.

Posting something about it on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram does nothing.

I don’t disagree @tucsonmom. But at some point, people DO have to show their faces, so to speak, and act in a visible public way. Even Ghandi marched – made half a billion people march – while also espousing non-violence and behind-the-scenes activism.

And doesn’t the chant “white silence is violence” give space for those things? Like I said before, there are ways to not be silent if one chooses not to protest. Thats why I personally find the chant non-offensive.

Additionally, I am sure many of those protesting are “living their words” in ways other than just protesting so, no, they aren’t taking an “easy way out”.

Upthread, somebody asked, “If you were in C’ville, what would you have done?”

If there were anarchists and/or white supremacists marching down my street, I would make sure that my doors were all locked and we’d hunker down until the violence stopped. If the riots were happening in another part of town, I’d avoid that part of town until everything calmed down. Why? Because I consider it my responsibility to keep me and my family safe. If there’s an angry mob marching down my street with torches, baseball bats, and other weapons, I’m not going to open the front door and invite them in for dinner.

Dumbest decision ever would be to leave where you are and make a bee line toward the violence to “see what’s happening.”

Exception to this rule would be if you’re an EMS worker, in which case, of course I would answer the call for all available staff to come in to work and assist.

“Posting something about it on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram does nothing.”

Disgaree there, @tucsonmom! We had about TWO THOUSAND people show up for a march and demonstration yesterday that was organized in less than 24 hours – thanks to Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. These are powerful communication tools.

This is my way of saying, yes, most activists do things besides march.

@katliamom Since I didn’t live in Nazi Germany I have no idea how I would have reacted. I am however a bit obsessed with WW2 and do lots of reading from that era. It’s very difficult to stomach.
I am from a very political family (both sides) and live in a very political town with lots of political friends. I work in a field with constant contact with people with a great amount of diversity. I would venture to guess that 95% of people I come into contact with have no idea of my political affiliation. As @tucsonmom said I choose not to support my causes in a way that would plaster my name on the evening news or headline the local newspaper. I would have a lot to lose. That does not make me part of the problem nor is it “violence” as indicated in the chant.

How I support my causes is very personal to me. Just because I don’t actively join protests or spew my views publicly it in no way means that I can’t “denounce fascists” and it definitely does not mean I support their causes.

I guess I just don’t believe in the “if you are not with me you are against me” mentality.

@bhs1978, I worked in media for years and years, and couldn’t be publicly involved in political causes either – so I understand your point about private actions.

But just so you know: that ‘white silence is violence’ wouldn’t apply to you (and really isn’t meant to be taken literally.) Because when you support your causes you’re NOT being silent.

Adding to @katliamom’s comments, social media is very much a part of organizing and having an impact - for better and worse. Examples: Women’s March, Arab Spring, Isis, and the white supremacists groups we’ve been talking about have all used social media effectively.

I’d like to point out that conflating “blocking roads” and violence is a really dubious rhetorical spin. Blocking roads is a standard direct action tactic. The non-violent Civil Rights movement led by MLK, Jr used direct action to get attention the cause, including blocking roadways and bridges. It is this very topic that the passage of King’s I quoted upthread is about.

Were the Movement, and King, wrong to use such tactics?

I just saw on the NBC nightly news about how participants are bring outed and “shamed” on social media. A guy who was a cook at Top Dog in Berkeley came all the way from California to Charlottesville to spread hate. He is no longer an employee there .

@tucsonmom

One thing to keep in mind is that Germany didn’t have a very democratic tradition before the Weimar Republic. Not too surprising considering it was preceded by a heavily authoritarian militaristic monarchical regime and in the mid-latter part of WWI, became an effective military dictatorship under Generals Von Hindenberg and Ludendorff.

The harshness of that dictatorship, deprivation from the war/blockade, and the Naval high command’s inclination to take their sailor’s lives for granted in ordering them and their ships to sally forth into a naval battle even when it was apparent the war was lost and government attempting to negotiate an armistice sparked a massive naval munity which effectively forced Kaiser Wilhelm II to abdicate and several Revolutions/uprisings which topped local monarchs/governments before the military establishment and far-right officers/soldiers in the freikorps harshly put down those uprisings with extreme prejudice.

Even in defeat, the much reduced German army(Reichswehr) was so powerful that it was effectively a state-within-a-state unaccountable to anyone…including the official Weimar Republic civilian government officials. When the Kapp Putsch was initiated by right-wing military officers and civilian sympathizers because the defense minister attempted to disband two powerful freikorp units, it nearly succeeded because when the civilian government attempted to ask the military nominally under their command to intervene, they flatly refused with the sentiment “Reichswehr do not shoot Reichswehr”.

This meant despite the Weimar Republic’s being an official democracy, it was a very weak one which had to be wary of the powerful conservative military and civilian establishments constantly trying to undermine it. This was a reason why the German military/police/courts of the period was so uneven in its treatment/punishments of left and right-wing groups which factored into the emboldening of the latter…including the Nazis.

Even then, there were protests…but this blatant unevenhandedness by the shadowly conservative military and civilian establishment…including LEOs in favoring right-wing groups over left-wing ones…including those who merely wanted to support a moderate democratic government almost always met with violence. This was only underscored by the kid-give treatment coup plotting military officers and Nazis like Hitler received in the courts and from their jailers(if they were even jailed!) after their attempted Beer Hall Putsch in contrast to union protests or even civilians heckling Reichswehr/Freikorps units leaving after a failed Putch who were met with harsh violence(i.e. firing military rifles and machine guns into those union protestors/civilian hecklers.

And even then, many continued to protest against the far-right and the Nazis at far greater risks to themselves/their families. And after the Nazi takeover, those who weren’t immediately arrested continued to resist the Nazi regime by hiding/facilitating the escape of Jews and other groups targeted for persecution. However, one must also keep in mind that.

Unfortunately, they were a tiny minority compared to the much more numerous “Good Germans” who stood by and did nothing or worse, supported the regime and its actions, often in the name of “law and order”.

And a reason why after the war many young schoolchildren in Germany and abroad…including the US are taught about the history of the “Good Germans” and how even the ones who did nothing ended up being considered complicit in the crimes of the Nazi regime.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/14/holocaust-memorial-boston-damaged-for-second-time-this-summer/ujYan70j3kXzFWS3TGcZ0J/story.html

The problem with doxxing, Who do you sue when you are misidentified?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html

Can anyone provide the total number of members of white supremacist groups over time? If you can’t numerically quantify something, you’re just guessing.

I’m will to believe the FBI, DHS, and other groups and agencies who follow such that it is a growing threat. I have seen nothing that says it is in decline. I’m sure they have numbers and I could probably dig them out if I looked long enough, but why do should I think these groups and organizations are lying?

This thread is about what you will kid advise your college kid on regarding participating in protests. It’s not a thread about the history of Nazi Germany.

Yes, there should be absolute confirmation . The two examples that NBC news used were confirmed - the guy from California and a student from UNLV.