Twisted and distorted travel thread

curmudgeon · June 12, 2005, 4:30pm

Since I have recently been told my questions about travel for students the summer between high school and college was ,I believe the phrase was “twisting and distorting”, the beach party thread , I thought I’d move it over here. What are your limits for your kid after high school, before college, and during the first year or two of college? Supervised. Unsupervised. Overnight. Limitations, 4 blocks off campus? No opposite sex? What? I truly don’t have an agenda. I’d just like to know what y’all are thinking.

Let’s say D decides she’s going to Rhodes in Memphis (and Rhodes decides they want her). Prior to move-in she and a girlfriend want to go on their own to visit campus over the summer from Texas by plane? Or after enrollment, she and a friend want to go to a function on the other side of Memphis and spend the night at U of ? Or second semester she and a friend want to roadtrip by car when the football team plays De Pauw? My thought would be it depends on the kid and the specific circumstances, but that didn’t work out that well for me on the other thread. What do y’all think?

cheers · June 12, 2005, 4:36pm

Prior to enrollment, stick with rules that have worked in the past.

After enrollment, it’s out of sight, out of mind. That is best for all involved. She makes mistakes free of parental judgement. You don’t have to watch her make those mistakes.

cur, is it too hot down there? You’re kinda ahead of yourself in the worry department…;)

curmudgeon · June 12, 2005, 5:01pm

cheers, Never too early to panic. It IS hot but this was just slopover from the other thread. So, to paraphrase-hopefully accurately-“high school rules till enrollment-don’t ask ,don’t tell after enrollment”. That will take some serious therapy on my part and it will bury some posters on the other thread. LOL.

A reason I am so clueless is that I was in fact a feral child . By the rules I’m seeing, and a lot of prior evidence- it was Romulus, Remus, and me. I don’t think I asked permission to go somewhere after about age 17. I didn’t refuse to ask. I just don’t think it would have entered my mind to ask. I think I told them where I was going-generally speaking. Hiking. Florida. Braves game. Georgia Jam. I’ll call you in a day or two. I wasn’t unusual. At least I didn’t think I was.

texas137 · June 12, 2005, 5:08pm

even if you wanted to impose restrictions on what your college-aged child is able to do, once they move out of your house and are living on campus you will be unable to enforce any of them. She is going to be able to do whatever she wants to w/o your knowing about it. Keep that in mind when you decide how tight to hold the reins during the last year of high school. A high school senior traveling with a girlfriend for a campus visit sounds perfectly fine. We let my son do several campus visits alone starting junior year (just turned 17). I obsessed about making sure he had someplace to stay other than alone in a hotel, but that was about it. If he had gone with a friend, I would not have even worried so much about the hotel.

Alumother · June 12, 2005, 5:13pm

We let D and girlfriends drive down to SoCal and stay in my mom’s guest house:). I always just tell her that if she ever changes her mind and wants to drink just call me at any time day or night and I will get her a hotel room or a cab or whatever it takes to get her off the road. That’s really been my only concern. But we’re real liberal and have a D with no boyfriend to date and a v. conservative approach to risk-taking so please take my data as perhaps an outlier.

And once college comes around, again, the only thing I have forbidden her to do is to die or seriously injur herself or anyone else.

curmudgeon · June 12, 2005, 5:15pm

That may be the way we very cautiously proceed. I do prefer a nice rainshower to a flash flood. But to continue with our western motif, I like the cowboy’s way of saying, “time to give her her head and let her pick her own way up that hill”.

soozievt · June 12, 2005, 5:39pm

Curm…for me, in high school, they usually were some place where there was supervision, someone home, etc. They went on trips either in supervised groups or where an adult was at the destination of the trip. I see the change in this when they are on their own in college. I won’t be supervising their every move. They can go away unsupervised because college itself is unsupervised. I need to be called and told the plans and for them to call when they reach the destination so I know their general whereabouts. For a big travel trip like my college daughter did to Alaska…did not require lots of permission but it was discussed and I gave it my blessing and certain conditions like calling from each daily destination was adhered to without complaint. While at college she does not call about every move like she had to in high school. Right now, my high schooler is at boyfriend’s house which is about 18 miles away and like her sister, once she drove on her own, she had to call as she left one location and as she arrived at the next to allay my worries with the driving. At college, the reins are far looser. That is kinda the “break” for me. When I allowed my 18 year old to drive to Alaska my line of reasoning was that while I had insisted on supervised travel growing up, she was now on her own in college and it was time for me to let go and allow her to be an adult. I kinda think we worked our way up to it. Plus, like ya say, each kid is different and this one is so trustworthy and responsible that it allowed me to allow her to do it. I don’t know on D2 who is a bit less trustworthy and responsible. However, she has been complying with calling me every time she gets into the car and every time she gets to the place she is going when either she is driving or a peer is driving. So, she is learning. Even then, as you can see, she came close to a death type experience this year behind the wheel. And ironically, that day, she wanted to drive to this city that is 50 miles from us and I would not allow her to do that after only two months with a license so she was just driving one exit on the road from where she had been to meet friends who had been driving way longer and to go in their car and to leave hers and so as cautious as I was about that rule, she had that accident after less than a mile on the interstate to go that one exit. So, while I have been the cautious type who has insisted on parents at home at houses she goes to and all that jazz and who she drives with, yadda yadda, STILL stuff happens. Bad stuff. But I did not make it easier for bad stuff to happen such as those unsupervised beach party coed overnight high school bashes that some are discussing on the forum. I am not into coed sleepovers and the very few she has done was after MUCH discussion with the host parents (after this year’s prom for instance) as to who was watching, where everyone was sleeping, etc. In college, different story. But that is the time for that break, for me, anyway. And 18 is also the age of adulthood. And with my younger D, if she complains one iota now, I remind her that I am being very lenient in letting her go away to college in the city and not even quite 17 when she gets there. So, I think I am being pretty open here but have been fairly strict on some of this stuff too, while they are growing up and living here.

Susan

jamimom · June 12, 2005, 5:52pm

I am with the parents who stick with the highschool rules until they are in college. The summer in between is a no man’s land that you have to take case by case.

I will tell you that some kids I know have eliminated colleges from their list after getting too much into the culture at unsupervised visits with friends. Some of them were taken into a police station. Not the way to start the college contact.

I did permit my son to go for an unsupervised college tour over spring break which was tightly scheduled and he had to call me at each point. Still it was taking a chance given the type of kid he is. I did have adult supervision for about half the trip, but he did stay at dorms with kids who had graduated from his highschool on a few of those visits, and I was nervous about the situation, I can tell you. But I don’t know about a road trip with friends to a college. That can lead into all sorts of situation if they decide to check out the social scene. For some reason, they tend to get into trouble when they are with others; not as much alone.

Once they are in college, it is futile to impose your supervision on them. Too much happening. A friend of mine whose son is at a school a half hour away is going nuts because she can’t let go and the stuff going on at the college is not what she wants her kid involved in. It’s also driving the kid nuts and I don’t think it is doing much good. If they cross the line at college and get into trouble, then back home they come under house rules. Even on their visits and summers, there were house rules. Similar to guest rules. This is not their house. It is our house. Some of us need to awaken early in the morning and cannot have kids come in at all hours of the night. It is rude to drink alcohol unless the hosts (H and I) offer it. It is rude to come home inebriated. It is criminal to bring contraband into the house. It is rude to bring home people you do not know well. It is not a very hospitable home for my kids who have tasted the freedom of college, and I think that has been some incentive to stay away.

emeraldkity4 · June 12, 2005, 6:04pm

disappointed at the false advertising from the heading of this thread
I am looking for ideas for H and I to do while younger daughter is away at camp. ;)

I don’t think I asked permission to go somewhere after about age 17.
been there done that- twice if I liked it
I hope that the high school students don’t read this but I am glad that I was a teen in the 70’s and not now
drugs/sex not safe anymore.
I will put $.02 more cents in
when they go off to school and you have no idea what they are doing, when they are doing it or who it, it is still ok to have your own rules when they come home for breaks.
It is your house, and if you don’t allow smoking/drinking or hanging from the chandeliers , you don’t to allow it just because they do it elsewhere.

gnusasaurus · June 12, 2005, 6:10pm

curmudgeon:

Now that you have started a new thread, I think this is a great topic and can give parents a lot to think about.

I am watching my 17 year old son mature. Although he is extremely mature in some areas, he is extremely immature in others. He is an oustanding student, but has never been kissed.

I am most interested in reading about the experiences of other parents in watching and helping their children mature and grow into adults.

Cheers!

calmom · June 12, 2005, 6:11pm

Cur, my daughter seems to have made the transition to “not asking” for permission since her 17th birthday. It’s hard for me to judge, actually, because I went off to college in another state when I was 16 … so there is nothing she is doing at age 17 that I wasn’t doing at the same age. The problem is that the the summer I was 17 I was living in an apartment on my own, having already weathered the first year dorm experience, so I really don’t have much of a benchmark to work with.

Then again, my d. spent 5 months last year living abroad and learning another language. She wants to go to New York on her own to visit colleges. I said that without me to rent a car, it would be hard to get around - she would have to take trains to visit some of the colleges she is interested in, like Vasser or Bard. She laughed and said she could manage trains just fine, adding “it’s really very easy when everyone speaks English”. (As to whether the NY trip takes place or not - that is unresolved. It’s just talk at this point. Her boyfriend will be attending college in Boston, and I think the fall Boston college-visiting trip without me is already a foregone conclusion.).

I do want to add that my d. is very wedded to her cell phone umbilical cord, something my parents didn’t have with me. So part of my comfort level stems from the fact that I really can monitor her 24/7 just by picking up the phone.

Alumother · June 12, 2005, 6:19pm

Another theme here - now that I have educated myself by reading the other thread - seems to be that some kids push the limits and some kids don’t. It’s easy for me to be permissive with my D. She hates drinking. She has never been one to care about peer pressure. She pushes for independence, but just to do things like go to SF and stay in a hotel with 5 other girls and see a musical. So I can be permisso mom with zero cost.

The thing that I envy for you all with kids who do push the limits is that at least you know the outcome. What does happen in a large group with drinking. My D hates those things so we don’t know. What does happen when alcohol and a casual attitude towards sex mix? My D is a wild romantic so we don’t know.

College for us will be a real eye-opener. I would in some ways have been more familiar with the need to rein someone in than with how to give knowledge to one who has remained in some ways profoundly innocent.

calmom · June 12, 2005, 6:19pm

emeraldkity - drugs & sex in the 70s were just as dangerous as they are now. We just didn’t know it at the time.

I would say that my daughter is far more knowledgeable about risks than I was at the same age. I mean, “safe sex” wasn’t exactly in our vocabulary - in those days we were talking “free love”. We were pretty much ready to experiment with anything and everything when it cames to drugs. Magic mushrooms, cocaine, whatever. And as far as cars - the phrase “designated driver” was not yet in vogue, and there were still cars on the road that didn’t even have seatbelts.

Whether kids these days exercise better judgment is another question entirely. But I do think that they are much more aware of risks.

wyogal · June 12, 2005, 6:41pm

I am perpetually grateful that God and my husband contrived to give me boys. ;)

I am a firm believer in keeping teenagers so busy that they don’t have time to do too much hell raising. Idle hands and all that. We did not allow S#1 to take a lot of “time off” between graduation and summer job. He did not/does not have to account for every move when home, but I still insist on knowing if he’s spending the night somewhere else, just so we don’t panic if he doesn’t show up. If going out of town for weekend I would want to know the approximate location, with whom and approximate return time. After all, he is still driving our car and we are still supporting him for the most part.

I freely admit I would not be as laid back as Calmom–whether it’s S or D, no 3000 mile trip to visit girl/boyfriend in college for my 17 year old. Besides, I want to go with so that I can see these places myself, and ask a few questions that might not occur to a 17 year old. Even S#2 surprised me with a complement about my questions on the last trip we took. “Gee Mom I never would have thought of that!” Which of course I took as a complement since those things are so rare :)

curmudgeon · June 12, 2005, 6:49pm

calmom, we may be getting a bit of a public transportation thing happening, huh? It seems that those kids who have had to travel on public transport alone tend to be more independent in their movements, generally. Hmmmm. Could it be the metal used in tokens? ;)

In all seriousness, my bus story on the other thread and my admission that I doubted my 17 daughter would have had the savvy to deal with the issue like the 12 year old New Yorker did IS what I fear. That without some amount of time dealing with issues in high school and early college they will limit themselves/be limited by their lack of experiences. I want D to be prepared for what’s around the corner. Well, within reason I do.

curmudgeon · June 12, 2005, 6:52pm

Great job, Alu. That may be part of it. I’m trying to get my horse to run a little while I can still help with the fall, when some of y’all are afraid of getting bucked completely off the horse. I can shut up now. Carry on. I’ll just read for a while.

momofthree · June 12, 2005, 6:56pm

I think when I supported the notion of my kids going to college 1000 (and more) miles away, I agreed in spirit that I can no longer supervise them when they are at school. There is a certain amount of peace to be found in letting oneself detach once they are out of the house and on (or off) the college campus. Cur, I suspect you will feel a bit better about all this in a year’s time; it was hard for me to imagine that possibility, but all that raising I did while my kids were seniors did seem to pay off when they left home. And if they make mistakes, we have to hope they grow from those.

I do have friends whose kids go to college at the local LAC; these parents have been seen cruising around town looking for them. I feel sorry for the kid and the parent, though I understand I would be peering around, too, if my kid were still in town. Gotta give them roots and give them wings, hard though it is.

cangel · June 12, 2005, 7:32pm

A few observations:

1) It depends on the child - I’m pushing my child to take a few risks in some areas, while being privately appalled about some ideas - as in flying Boston 1 day early, spending a night in some hotel somewhere, then going back to Logan to catch a bus to Hanover (at age 17, can they even book a hotel room at 17), would be just fine with no worries/ concerns on our part - what you mean Mom, you don’t think I could manage?? Well, yes dear I’m sure YOU could manage, it’s me I’m not so sure about. In the end we may do this, but with reservations and clear instructions.
Now with child number 2, I may be the one driving around town hoping to spot him from his in town LAC.

2) There is a difference in rules at home and rules in school, in going to another town for a concert without asking/telling Mom and Dad, and in going to another city for the weekend, or in driving 300 miles to Alaska. There is also differences in asking permission, and in having the courtesy to tell your family where you are, and in discussing the adviseability of a decision as an adult with your parents. Getting from a state of living under careful supervision at home to being an independent adult takes years and many smaller steps for most of our kids today, and quite, frankly, people who are mature adults and care for their family members don’t go off for days without telling people where they are (aahhh, how about the Ga “runaway bride” fiasco) even at age 40.
I think that I am justified about having rules about sexual behavior, illegal behavior (ie underage drinking) and spending large amounts of my money in my own home - regardless of whether or not my daughter has gone to college and come home or not. In return she gets a very expensive education for free, and a roof as long as she needs one - she will gradually become a guest in my house as well as part of the family, and if she ever has to become a permanent resident of my house, then another set of discussions is in order.

I liken this to an event, relatively early in my marriage - I have always been a terrible worrier, even as a small child, and I thought my husband understood this. Once, before kids, but after we had been married about 4 years, he accepted an invitation for a day of sailing, he had told me before he left that he would be gone about 6-8 hours tops, which seemed short to me, because it was over 1 hour to get to the place where the boat would be put in, but what did I know. I was just about ready to call the state police when he had been gone for 12 hours, when he called and said they had just gotten the boat out, adn were going for dinner before driving home - I was livid, because I was hysterical I think I told hem to just don’t bother coming home, he has now learned that I have to have either open-ended commitments, “I don’t know, but it will be late”, or fairly accurate estimated of when people will be home (cell phones are a mental health tool for me), because I become so uncomfortable otherwise. Different people, different ways to manage.

calmom · June 12, 2005, 7:41pm

wyogal, I can assure you that whatever my 17 yo might do with her boyfriend in Boston they have already figured out how to do on the west coast. My comfort level with Boston stems from the fact that I have spent time there, and did so when I was relatively young. It is an easy town to get around with a terrific public transit system. Well, it’s possible that you could get stuck on the MTA and never return, but I only know of one song where that happens.

Cur - I think kids will adjust and learn. When I went off to college at 16, I was coming from Texas actually - while I won’t say I was naive, I definitely wasn’t coming from the urban jungle. On the other hand - I’ll share something I think is a little funny -I was visiting a college site where there are blogs posted by enrolled students, and one student finishing up her first year proudly posted about how she was finally getting off campus and figuring out the local transit system. In June. I couldn’t imagine my own daughter waiting that long to explore – she is definitely the out-and-about kind of kid. When she was younger and we would travel together as a family, she was always pretty much leading the way. Actually, we have all sorts of interesting experiences with people we’ve met because of that – I mean, somehow at age 8 or 10 she had always managed to talk some adult into giving us a free behind-the-scenes tour of something or other. So basically – it IS an every-kid-is-different sort of thing - and my kid happens to be the one you want to put in charge of making the travel arrangements and leading your tour.

zagat · June 12, 2005, 7:46pm

If I remember the other thread correctly, most parents who had an objection to anything mostly just objected to organized drinking events like senior week and spring break.

It would be pretty silly not to let a kid go and visit colleges a few months before they are to permanently attend!

There is no part of me that wants to stop my kids from seeing the world and growing up. There is a part of me that wants to keep them alive through silly rites of passage.

Twisted and distorted travel thread

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