<p>I have been a much more relaxed parent when kids are off at school, not witnessing their self-discipline or lack thereof. When they have been at home, my attitude is that I have to have a deadline on my worrying, so I expect them to come home at reasonable hour or let me know why not. My son made the remark recently that when I FINALLY let him do certain things, he was fine, there was never a problem. (This was after he observed that some of his recent freedoms had made him nervous, but he had figured things out.) I observed, ever so cooly and calmly, that perhaps he did just fine, because we only let him do things he was ready to handle. That was one of my best exit lines ever.</p>
<p>Let’s put it this way…once I was in college, my parents really didn’t even KNOW what I was doing…how could they impose rules on a day to day basis when I was hundreds of miles away? OTOH…I was responsible most of the time. When my kids are at home, there are still rules to abide by…no underage drinking, no drugs, and no overnight guests of the opposite sex in their bedrooms. Are these rules I think I can impose while DS is in college…NOT at all. BUT I hope he has some common sense, and has learned something about family values in the last 20 years. Re: trips…I don’t pay for them. DS went to Montreal over spring break…with two other guys…That is ALL I know…and I’m not asking a lot of questions.</p>
<p>If you really want to let the horse run, you could start with spring break and go from there. Suggest something daring. </p>
<p>Still, I don’t think seniors are expecting the rules to drop pre-enrollment. They have no idea what to expect after enrollment.</p>
<p>It’s not so much don’t ask, don’t tell. I ask and they tell. They tell when I don’t ask. Sometimes it’s more than I want to know. I’ve heard about a numerous social and academic face plants. I’ve suggested remedies. Sometimes I have suggested remedies several times.</p>
<p>It really is out of sight, then (I work on putting it) out of mind. It helped that we put S1 on a plane to Africa four weeks after he graduated. My first adjustment? I had to put rebel outbreaks in Uganda ‘out of mind’. I did it–after a few emails to London HQ. </p>
<p>Funny how the grass is never greener, isn’t it? You want your horse to run a bit while she is still at home. Jami wants a few of hers to get back in the barn. We are probably somewhere in the middle. . </p>
<p>S1 is now on his fifth short visit home. We don’t have contraband or undesirables camped in our living room but we have had inebriation (drinking age is 18) and Hemingway hours. Still, the biggest pain is the fact that he is now a visitor passing through. As I once was in my parent’s home.</p>
<p>We have enjoyed a wonderful family life with our boys. It’s painful to adjust the love volume down to ‘barely audible’, but we do it. For him.
(fwiw cur, it seems harder for DH than me).</p>
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Cheers. Made me tear up. What a wonderful say to say it.</p>
<p>Cheers and Alumother,</p>
<p>I’m a 51 year old husband, father and small business operator. Tough in some ways. But everytime I think about my son going to college, I get choked up.</p>
<p>One day my wife mentioned how this coming Thanksgiving will be the last we will spend together as a family with our children living at home. And, next year, we will be looking forward to our son coming home to visit for Thanksgiving. I cried.</p>
<p>I also went off to college at 17 and had been going unsupervised into NYC to attend concerts/games with friends since age 12. Both my parents grew up in cities and were independent at young ages. I find I’m more lenient about stuff than my husband. My 18yo is much more cautious than I was. I’m trying to introduce her to life’s experiences a little bit at a time, so she’ll know how to deal later on. For instance, I was driving her home from a modeling assignment in NYC and pulled up in front of Penn Station and told her to get out and take the train home. She panicked at first and I told her I wouldn’t leave until I knew she was safely on a train. I explained the basics of how the trains worked and told her to call me on the cell if she had any trouble (I warned her strongly only to talk to officials). I assured her that she didn’t have to go through with it if she felt uncomfortable. After several calls with questions, she finally called all excited, announcing she was on the right train and it was on the way home. She was feeling really proud of herself and eventually called me to say she had arranged for a friend to pick her up at the train station and they were going out for ice cream to celebrate her success. I couldn’t have been happier for her. My friends thought I was really mean, but I would have caved if necessary.</p>
<p>Her recent prom weekend down the shore with friends was a success and now she’s asked for a graduation party. She wants to use our camper and spend the weekend down the shore with friends. I made her go over the possibilities and we finally agreed that my h and I will bring the camper there, set up a tent on another site for any guys that come, but we will also stay at the campground(in a tent). We agreed to stay on the other side of the campground to give them some privacy, but we would be checking in now and then. Even though she’s 18, she agreed and admitted that having us there would probably be ok, that then most of her friends would be allowed to come (and maybe we could cook breakfast or something for them).</p>
<p>I think it’s a big adjustment for kids when they suddenly can do anything they want. Some go overboard. I’d rather see a gradual adjustment.</p>
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<p>The drugs never were safe.</p>
<p>Alu-if you’re referring to my comment on pushing limits, it certainly didn’t mean drug, sex and alcohol. There are ways in which kids push limits without rolling in the mud and tramping around like idiots. In other words, kids who stay out late, travel to NYC to attend broadway shows as their Sat night activity with friends, have traveled to foreign countries and can navigate in foreign languages, chat about which restaurants have the best ceviche and why, etc. Some kids are doing this while others are still enjoying IMing on AOL and playing video games. Pushing limits isn’t about throwing furniture from balconies and drinking until you puke. My son has friends who do the latter…and he usually doesn’t hang out wth them in the evenings. His “hang out” crowd is a very subdued, mature crowd that includes several long-term couples. Last year they started to compete about which guy would treat his GF the nicest…take her to the best shows, get the best seats, scoring the hottest tickets, nicest restaurants, etc. I call this a limit pushing kind of thing because it’s more than most 16-17 yr olds are doing, which means that when they’re 17-18, they’re at yet another level of sophistication. Hence, the “wha tdo you do for an encore?” question. Yes, they’re a little beyond their years…and yes, they’re a little snotty about it. But, give me them over the “drink til we puke and throw furniture from the balcony” kids anyday. And, we parents are all in agreement to cut off the allowances now that they’re out of HS. Let’s see what they’ll come up with to keep up this pace without us financing it! ha ha. So, these kid aren’t pushing the limits in terms of what you were thinking. They would probably shudder at the thought. But, they’re pretending to be grown up and we’re wondering how they’ll adjust to college where most kids are just then learning to be free. </p>
<p>My S also just opted out of the Freshman Quad at Penn after speaking with lots of people who clued him on on what to expect next fall. He couldn’t imagine himself living day in and day out like that. He’s in another dorm where he feels the atmosphere will more closely mirror what he feels he’s ready for - not Toga 101. </p>
<p>Please understand that pushing limits doesn’t always mean that kids act stupidly. I would hope that some kids have learned to push limits with maturity and grace. That’s part of what they should learn, anyway. If kids don’t learn to push limits in a controlled, mature fashion, this is when they get to college and, well, we read the stories in September and October when the “what has my child done?” threads start to crop up.</p>
<p>This is a timely thread for me because S (Wild Child) is on his first real road trip (not counting the ones where he took our car out at night before he even had his license). He is 18, a rising senior and drove from Texas to outside Nashville for Bonarroo (think Woodstock…) with two classmates from boarding school- in my car! I was nervous about the long drive, but less nervous about Bonarroo itself since once they are in they are IN (i.e. no drinking and driving). They took camping stuff, food and bug spray. This is what 18 year old kids do- but it was a first for our family. D was off at college before she took a spring break road trip. S has always pushed the limits, but has matured greatly and we are willing to let him venture out. He is going to spend the month of July alone in a cabin in the mountains so he can train for his sport. When he asked to do that I told him he was out of his mind, but the more H and I thought about it the idea made sense. He knows the weather and temptations of Texas are more distracting than being alone in the woods.</p>
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<p>Cheers, I had this wonderful plan. I bought D a Leadership Week, she could choose either Barnard or Bryn Mawr, her choice. Arrangements would be made for pick up and delivery. It was perfect. That coupled with a week at grl’s state and three stay away basketball camps for senior girls wanting to play college ball- I was set!! Then they moved her surgery to Wednesday, and now she will miss the rest of the summer. Best laid plans and all that. Rats.</p>
<p>I was telling DW about the thread and she allowed how D already has spring break planned.:eek: See, Dad and Mom will rent a house and all my friends will come down to South Padre. It appears that according to the princess, we can stay in the house but we can’t go out with them into town, or to the beach, or the pool, or admit we know them. (Heck, I can probably deal with that, even at spring break.)</p>
<p>Just one more thought…the summer between HS and college was ok here…the hs rules still held. The Thanksgiving break was exhausting. DS had very different “hours” than the rest of the family, plus expected use of the family car at all hours. It was a tiring long weekend. Christmas break was fine because DS had his wisdom teeth pulled. I would recommend this as the perfect time for this procedure :)…cuts down on family angst. By spring break, things were fine. This year was not a problem at all (sophomore year).</p>
<p>Momsdream - I am curious. How do the friends of your son afford tickets to the best shows and restaurants (as well as the trip to Florida, sending cars on the car train, etc)? Do they have really high paying part time jobs or do their parents fund them? My S and D (in the Philly suburbs) felt guilty and spoiled all through h.s. because they didnt work during the school year and we pay for their car insurance, music lessons, etc and also allowed them to apply to private colleges, while most of their friends must earn their own insurance and spending money and spend a lot of free time working during the school year. It seems from reading all of these various posts that there is a lot of variation in what is common for teens to do, depending on the community where you live.</p>
<p>I weighed in on the specific so I’ll do so on the general. The disclosure is that I am from a long line of worriers. I do it very well. I’m not as hysterical as some in my family but I can get there. The 12-hour day (with no call) that was supposed to be 8 would have made me upset too. Cell phone has made my life easier and D does not mind me calling – she also calls to check in regularly. </p>
<p>D is an upcoming senior and I’m working hard to provide more space for her to make decisions. Earlier in HS she had to call BEFORE going from one venue to another – to ask. Now, we simply require that she let us know where she is – asking is not required. Other than the outright “no” for unsupervised spring break/senior/graduation celebrations, we have given her some opportunities for travel. Although I was along for the trip with many other chaperones, she and other kids were let loose in major and minor cities all over Europe last summer. There were rules about minimum group size but otherwise, they had free run of Paris, London, Venice, Munich, etc. This was very difficult for me but we have traveled quite a bit as a family over the years and I felt like she had some good experience to bring. I would check in at curfew but would often not see her (or know where she was) for the entire day. All was well and there were no problems over the 3-week adventure. As an aside, this was a trip she DID NOT want to take (boyfriend at the time, missing friends who weren’t going, etc). We suggested that she would have one opportunity to sing in Notre Dame in her life and that she should reconsider…</p>
<p>This summer, she is a camp counselor an hour away at the camp she has attended since she was about 8. She has made her way up the leadership ladder and although I wasn’t ready to have her gone all summer (back for under 24 hours each weekend), it was important to her and we think she’s amassing more life skills than she would have staying at home and working. No AC, scrubbing the showers and bathrooms, dealing with nests of mice, worrying about whether she’ll remember the back-board protocol if she has to rescue a child in the pool, etc. With the other staff (high school seniors and college age), she will be going to a concert in another state in July – unsupervised – and we have talked about this extensively. This is an annual event with no problems in years past. It’s a risk but something we thought she should be allowed to do. Baby steps.</p>
<p>Next year, she will likely do overnight visits at least at a couple of schools without either H or me. These will be 2-5 hours away by car. She will be going with 1-2 other seniors in these cases. Because the social scene is an important part of college, these visits will important for her final decision making and are probably best done independently.</p>
<p>Regarding rules after college – I agree that there is no policing while they are away. You’ve made your investment and then you hope and pray. I also agree with the house rules when they are home. Even now, I explain to D (who is a bit of a “pusher”) that I don’t rest well until I know she is settled for the night. I worry a great deal about being out in a car late – not so much about her but about others. The probability of a driver being under the influence or falling asleep at the wheel is much higher at 2am than at 10pm. She understands that now and doesn’t argue so much about what time she needs to be “settled” for the night (whether at home or when staying at a friend’s house). </p>
<p>I’m not looking forward to letting go (the worry part is very hard for me) – but as an independent type myself, I do appreciate that it’s in their best interest to let them use their wings and learn to navigate and pick themselves up when they fall. I’ll be there to help whenever possible.</p>
<p>momsdream - I wasn’t actually responding to any specific post. And the limits I was referring to are on the full spectrum, from the easier ones like wanting to travel from NY to the Jersey Shore alone to the harder ones that make us all nervous, the group drinking, the staying out too late, the dating an older guy, whatever. I can really only speak for myself. I know I worry about my D, who has always been the sober responsible type in social settings. What will happen when she can’t just drive home? Maybe we just all have to worry about something.</p>
<p>curmudgeon,</p>
<p>I didn’t notice if anyone responded to your direct questions about your daughter traveling to Memphis to visit Rhodes with another student during the summer before attending.</p>
<p>I think there is a huge difference between business and pleasure. This sounds like a trip where she would be wanting to take care of some business…checking things out at the college, tiptoeing her way around Memphis, learning what it would actually be like to be there.</p>
<p>If my child were seriously interested in taking this step on their own to explore the college and the city, I would have no hesitation, subject of course to actually believing the child would be capable of getting their way around town without an adult, as almost all students of that age would be. </p>
<p>As far as the other activities later while she is already in college, she’ll probably do those things and not ask permission. She might ask advice from time to time, but I am sure as they progress past the first semester or two, they pretty much do as they please. </p>
<p>My niece matured so rapidly during her first few months of college it was quite incredible! She didn’t know if she had made the right decision to attend a University 60 miles from her family. within just a few weeks, she became totally wrapped up in her college life and morphed into an adult right before our eyes.</p>
<p>MO2-</p>
<p>Parent funded. I know, for a fact, that some of the kids have credit cards attached to parent’s accounts with what seem to be unlimited budgets. Of course, this isn’t the case for my S - but he seems to get invited to participate and, I guess, funded. I know he only paid $65 for this trip (not including his air ticket), which was covered by vouchers he had from other tix where the prices go down and I watch fares and call the airlines to get vouchers. I’m currently holding about $800 in vouchers in his name. I love the voucher game.</p>
<p>Anyway, other parents are very generous and often pick up the tabs for groups of kids, as well as their own. I’ve often had to call other parents after hearing my son tell me what they did and how so and so’s parent paid for everyone. I’ve always called and asked if I can reimburse someone or contribute something -and am always told not to worry about it. I sometimes feel badly because we don’t have the same opportunity to treat everyone to something. Clearly, everyone is much better off than us and it IS sometimes frustrating for me because I stuggle to keep up with it all, financially…and I sometimes have to remind son that we don’t have it like that…and I have to say no and come up with creative alternatives (family circle tix instead of box seats,etc).</p>
<p>Thanks, I was just curious about all of this!</p>
<p>I seem to have my feet firmly planted in both (all?) camps. Like Alumother, I have had it a bit easy as S has not been a limit-pusher, has not been a party-hearty type etc. </p>
<p>I am thinking that this summer’s rules will be as they have been for hs. But this works rather smoothly <em>she hopes</em> as we have already evolved into a “when do you expect to be home?” vs. curfew etc. He has proven himself trustworthy. I would readily allow him to do various sorts of road trips with friend(s). In fact, I did such in hs (when Abe Lincoln was president). </p>
<p>Yet, I have a reflexive negative reaction to Spring Break/Senior Week type activities whether for hs or college students. I realize I have no control over college-age plans, but I would not fund such a request. For hs, I would say “No.” And, upon reflection, it isn’t about my S and my rules. It’s about the ethos of these things. I object to the whole Girls Gone Wild/bacchanal atmosphere and just don’t want to have me or mine have anything to do with it.</p>
<p>So to answer curmudge’s qx: yes to overnights, even unsupervised, no limits on how far (in miles), but some requests would get a No based on the ethos of the event/activity. To me, it’s a value-system thing. We teach our kids values, and we model them re respect for their peers and those of us with sons re respect for the girls they date. I just don’t see sending him off with my blessing to something which points in a whole different direction.
<em>steps off soapbox</em></p>
<p>Thank you, curmudge, for starting a very helpful thread. I think it helps us fine-tune our own thoughts and learn and adapt based on the perspectives of others. (altho I do sympathize with emeraldk’s hope that this thread would fulfill an entirely different need).</p>
<p>I have D who is pretty innocent (by choice) but very trustworthy. I have tried to have a gradual loosening of the reins for the last year.</p>
<p>It culminated when she went by herself, on a plane, for a 4-day visit to her intended college (after being admitted.) The coach had agreed to arrange a host kid for her, but unfortunately left that job for the last minute. So even when she got on the plane–believe it or not-- she & I still had no idea what future teammate was planning to put her up! </p>
<p>She had the phone number for a taxi, as well as the coach’s phone number-- I told her I’d leave the info about where & whom she was to meet on her cell phone voicemail during her flight. I told her if there was a screw up to just go to the admission office and fall on their mercy, or call home.</p>
<p>The coach reached me, I left the message, she got it-- and she did just fine. Four days of fun exploring her new school and meeting people. Raging parties each night but no pressure to partake. Got there an back with a plane change each way no problem. </p>
<p>This was very reassuring to me because I felt like it was a good dry run for her.</p>
<p>MO2- It also probably has a lot to do wtih the school one’s children attend. Keep in mind that we’re in the city, not the burbs (which I think lends to kids growing up a little faster and being exposed to more of an urban influence). And my S attends a private day school. Hence, many (not all) of the families have incomes that afford such things. We struggle just to pay the tuition But, it’s probably a drop in the bucket for many families.</p>