<p>We are from the U.S. and I am trying to assist my daughter, who is interested in studying business in London, find a reputable, well-regarded business program that offers an HND. She came up with this path because we are looking for a 2 year experience/program (one year study abroad option was too short for HER and a 3 year commitment too long for ME ). She has done her own research and is looking to obtain an HND in the UK with her plan being to return to the U.S. to obtain her Bachelor’s Degree. She has completed one semester as a Freshman at a University here but is not satisfied with the school as well as having concern regarding the debt she will have accumulated if she stayed at this school. She is seeking a different experience where she can broaden her cultural view (she has a passion for anything British) but would also like a more accelerated career-oriented program than the one she was currently enrolled in. While she had excellent grades in high school (‘A’ student) and was very involved in sports, clubs and student gov’t, I am concerned about the emphasis that it seems the UK places on AP scores because she does not fare as well w/standardized testing (AP scores 3 & 1 / SAT approx. 1700). She was accepted into the business school at a university in CT, where her GPA for the semester was 2.89. </p>
<p>We are in the midst of researching the programs offered at The London School of Business and Finance and The London School of Business and Management. She is also looking into some of the universities that offer an HND (Kingston so far) with the hope of finding a place for her to start in Sept… </p>
<p>My question is regarding the validity of this degree and the transferability of the credits (particularly from a vocational type of school such as The London School of Business and Management). My understanding is that the HND is above the U.S. Associate’s Degree but just below a Bachelor Degree. Does anyone know how this degree and/or the vocational type of business schools she is looking into are regarded in the U.S. (or even in the UK)? </p>
<p>Of course, any feedback of any kind would be VERY much appreciated!</p>
<p>I think if you are going to this much trouble, you may as well get yourself a proper Bachelor’s degree. An HND takes two years, but a Bachelor’s degree in most UK colleges/unis is only one more beyond that. A Bachelor’s degree is going to open many more doors. Many American employers will not know what an HND is (I didn’t until I saw your post, and I am an attorney in the USA).</p>
<p>If you are planning to use an HND to transfer into an American 4-year program, you probably should contact that program and make sure they will accept it.</p>
<p>Most folks in the USA will have never heard of HND’s, but colleges and university admissions departments will have professionals who know how to evaluate foreign qualifications. In America this sort of “vocational” education is much more respected than it is in the UK, whenever this comes up here it seems like a lot of folks look down their noses at a more vocational approach to education.</p>
<p>But there are always exceptions.</p>
<p>KEVP</p>
<p>A few points </p>
<ul>
<li><p>UCAS deadline is 6pm on January 15th. Miss this at your peril. </p></li>
<li><p>An HND is typically only explicitly offered by the bottom-end universities. It will also sometimes be awarded by better universities to students who completely mess up third year, but they won’t take anyone on the plan that they’re only going to leave with an HND. So, your daughter will be restricting herself severely with regards to how good a uni she can go to - and indeed, the places you’re looking at are very much bottom end. She’s not academically stellar, but should be looking at somewhere more mid-ranking. </p></li>
<li><p>Doing a whole degree will only take 3 years. If she was returning to the US, then I imagine that an HND would be seen as equivalent to an Associate’s Degree, so she’d be spending two more years at college there as a transfer student. Do check, however, that this is actually possible. You don’t want to find her spending four more years to get a BA when one would have sufficed, simply because they don’t understand her qualifications. </p></li>
<li><p>There’s life outside London. Lots of it, actually. Given that no one can actually afford to live in central London, you tend to find that students move out into the outer suburbs for second and third year, and end up nowhere near their friends. So, you don’t get the student village effect that you get in places like Clifton / Redland in Bristol, or Fallowfield in Manchester, or Headingley in Leeds, where students are living near both their friends and the university. There’s a lot to do in the larger cities, and the UK is a small island with a well developed rail network, meaning that she could visit London even for the day if she wanted to. For instance, you can travel from Manchester in the north west to London in the south east in two hours. See [National</a> Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables](<a href=“http://www.nationalrail.co.uk%5DNational”>http://www.nationalrail.co.uk) for journey times. It’s also an awful lot cheaper to live outside London - rents in the north are typically around a third of what you’d pay for an equivalent property in London. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I think you’re bonkers for insisting on only two years. Let her go for all three and leave with a BA - it makes sense in terms of education, of overall cost, and in terms of what she seems to want to do.</p>
<p>I agree with above posts. HNDs aren’t even well regarded in the UK… your daughter doing one would be a complete waste of time and money. Why is two year in the UK alright but not three?</p>
<p>Agree completely with all of the above, and will add that the road to finishing a degree may be longer than you are expecting. Most universities put a cap on how many credits you can transfer. University of Maryland, as an example, requires at least 120 credit hours to graduate (varies a little by program), but you can’t transfer more than 60. So, two full years once she gets back - and that’s IF they accept all her credits, which as somebody has already pointed out is a pretty big If.</p>
<p>So if you count this year, plus two in the UK, plus at least two more back in the US, that’s 5 years minimum to get a degree. </p>
<p>Second the point about London costs cannot be overstated, esp if part of the point is to save money! Tuition will be £9000 (just under $15000), but then you have accommodation, meals, books, transport and other living expenses. </p>
<p>You might find this site helpful: [International</a> Student Calculator - powered by Brightside ? Student Calculator](<a href=“http://international.studentcalculator.org/]International”>http://international.studentcalculator.org/)</p>
<p>If you follow Boomting’s advice, in three years she would be finished with a good undergraduate degree. And speaking as a mom living in the US with a child at university in the UK, if you can handle 2 years you can handle 3!</p>
<p>On the subject of costs, tuition fees are only £9000 per year for UK / EU students, which your daughter isn’t. I just had a quick look and my own uni charges £18,000 per year for business studies to international students, though of course this does vary massively depending on which uni you go to. </p>
<p>Unfortunately business studies is very popular with international students, especially the Chinese. I have a nasty suspicion that this pushes the costs up - a course at the same university which won’t cost any less to teach, but which is in a subject that the Chinese don’t tend to prefer (politics) is £14,000 per year. Go figure. </p>
<p>On the subject of living costs, I’d suggest £7500 per year to live outside London in a comfortable but not extravagant manner. Inside London, you’re talking more like £11,000, maybe even £12,000 for the same standard of living, simply because rents are ridiculous. In addition to that, you’ll need to cover for flights home and if she wishes to use her holidays to travel around Europe, that too. </p>
<p>On the plus side, you won’t have to cover health insurance, as she’ll be covered by the NHS - there’s a recent discussion here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/united-kingdom/1601846-nhs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/united-kingdom/1601846-nhs.html</a></p>
<p>Thank you all SO much for your responses. I cannot tell you how helpful this is being that we do not know a soul in London to help guide us through this process! </p>
<p>I do realize this is an unconventional path but that is exactly what she is yearning for; however, after spending nearly ALL week researching the schools she came up with and taking in all of YOUR thoughts, I am coming to realize that this may not be the best path for her (I can’t seem to find a vocational business school that seems legit). Tonight I will discuss with her the option of applying as an undergrad to a university instead (being mindful of the January 15th deadline)! </p>
<p>So we will be scrambling here as we switch gears. I am concerned about admission given her AP and SAT scores and would ask that if anyone has a handful of target schools we could consider, it would (again) be VERY much appreciated (there are so many schools in London)!!! A friend suggested Richmond The American University. </p>
<p>BTW… She did contact an admission officer at Baruch, who said “yes”, the credits from an HND would transfer. She also found an 18-month accelerated Bachelor Degree program at Northeastern U. tailored specifically for students who have their HND. Granted the degree is also somewhat unconventional (Bachelor of Science in Leadership) but when she looked at the course load, it APPEALED to her. </p>
<p>Thank you in advance…I am now going to go back and re-read every one of your posts. So much good information!!</p>
<p>I’m glad things are making a bit of sense to you and that you’re taking these things on board. The reason that you’re probably finding a lot of vocational business schools aren’t legit is because business courses are very popular with international students, and there’s a big market for sham colleges that essentially exist only to get students into the UK on a student visa (I know, I know). </p>
<p>Go for a proper university that is ranked somewhere on the league tables. Kingston is one of those - not a sham college, but not exactly a top ranking university either. </p>
<p>[Home</a> | UCAS | Helping You Into University & College In The UK](<a href=“http://www.ucas.com%5DHome”>http://www.ucas.com) has a full, searchable list of all the courses in the UK
[The</a> best UK University & degree guides | rankings & reviews](<a href=“http://www.whatuni.com%5DThe”>http://www.whatuni.com) allows you to search that list by UK grade requirements </p>
<p>I’m afraid my knowledge of what different unis want from US students for business studies is limited, but she might like to consider Leicester - solid university, mid-sized well connected city.
It would seem that she would be eligible for admission [USA</a> ? University of Leicester](<a href=“http://www2.le.ac.uk/study/international/need-to-know/country/northamerica/usa]USA”>USA | International students | University of Leicester)
and they have a variety of management courses (which is something she should consider as it’s not dissimilar to business studies) [Management</a> Studies ? University of Leicester](<a href=“http://www2.le.ac.uk/study/ugp/management]Management”>http://www2.le.ac.uk/study/ugp/management) </p>
<p>Are you aware that she has to write a personal statement? It’s very different to a US college admissions essay and should be centred on why she wants to study business, not her ECs or anything like that. Indeed, UK universities want a student who is a bit obsessed with their subject, not someone well rounded. </p>
<p>Have you come across The Student Room? It’s a bigger, UK version of CC. In particular, I’d point you to
- the Applications and UCAS forum, for anything relating to filling in the UCAS form - generally a very efficient forum at getting good answers IME
- Business and Management courses for anything relating to choosing a specific course
- the Americans applying to uni in the UK thread (in the International Lounge)
- the wiki, for advice on writing her PS and examples of other’s PS </p>
<p>You’re liable to get bogged down in too much information if you start reading the forums in too much depth, and at the moment you have most certainly not got time to do that if you are to hit the deadline (remember that 6pm on the 15th is UK time; GMT) so don’t be afraid to start your own thread(s). </p>
<p>Plan of action for you and her:
- research (obviously), including what modules are on the courses at different universities (this varies drastically), where’s reputable and where’s not, and what entry requirements there are, and if she actually wants to be in that town (there’s no greater difference than between Aberystwyth or Bangor and London, for instance, so that’s something else to thing about)
- choose five courses that she would want to do. 1 or 2 reaches, 2 or 3 realistic choices, and 1 or 2 choices that she’s slightly overqualified for
- write a PS, in an appropriate style. Start this now, tonight, as it will take a while.
- fill in the UCAS form (which is a bit longwinded)
- get a reference from someone appropriate - likely to be the same person who wrote her reference for the US college [Undergraduate</a> referees | UCAS | How to Write UCAS References](<a href=“http://www.ucas.com/how-it-all-works/advisers-and-referees/referees/undergraduate]Undergraduate”>http://www.ucas.com/how-it-all-works/advisers-and-referees/referees/undergraduate) </p>
<p>Sorry if that was a bit rambly!</p>
<p>If you absolutely refuse to consider anywhere outside of London (or perhaps do not understand that there is more than one city in the UK), it will cost you a lot more.</p>
<p>If it’s not on the UCAS website it’s probably a scam.</p>
<p>We are VERY busy switching gears here but I would like to take a moment to THANK everyone for their input. BOOMTING, University of Leicester seems like a perfect school to put in the mix (and I found out that they have an exchange program that is affiliated w/St. John’s University here…in the event she is unable to stay for the 3 years, at least the credits will transfer). A separate shout out of thanks to you for all of the insightful info…which included a very helpful “plan of action”, no less! Cupcake, we are absolutely not hung-up on being right in London (well, maybe we WERE but from what we learned here, no more :)!</p>
<p>How are you getting on?</p>